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Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by mrkstu on Wednesday January 31, 2018 @12:32PM (#16275603)
Agreed. I chimed in on an earlier article supporting eating meat- but higher mammals are a special case.

Dolphins/Whales should be in the same category as Elephants and Apes. They are beings with complex social structures and individual personalities. They are not prey or husbandry animals, but apex animals.

David Brin's Uplift novels make this point very well- these are our fellow travelers on the road to sentience. We just go there first. Eating these animals is brushing right up against cannibalism to me.

Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by phreeza on Wednesday January 31, 2018 @01:58PM (#16276480)
Why are elephants higher on the hierarchy than eg pigs?
Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by kleer001 on Wednesday January 31, 2018 @02:02PM (#16276517)
They're a keystone species, have culture and language (probably older than any human one), they mourn their dead, and on and on...
Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by eloff on Wednesday January 31, 2018 @04:19PM (#16277641)
Pigs are smart too. I don't know about on the same scale as elephants though. Elephants are also very social and long lived.
Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by infectoid on Wednesday January 31, 2018 @08:01PM (#16278969)
I try to cut pig products out of my diet because I can't kick this comment someone said to me once, "Pigs. As close to eating humans as you'll get".
Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by fjsolwmv on Wednesday January 31, 2018 @07:11PM (#16278742)
I know many humans who are not very social. Is "very social" a prerequisite for right to live?
Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by eloff on Wednesday January 31, 2018 @07:32PM (#16278822)
No, it's a proxy for intelligence and higher forms of conscious awareness. There's no such thing as right to live for non-humans - if the world stops eating pigs, how many do you think would be alive? That applies in nature too where survival comes down to fitness and luck. But the higher the life form, the more human-like it is and the more humanely we should treat them. Ants get different dispensation from cows, and cows from dogs. Dolphins and elephants should get better treatment still, but this is not currently the case.
Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by dboreham on Wednesday January 31, 2018 @03:02PM (#16277037)
Pigs are pretty cool too though.
Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by matte_black on Wednesday January 31, 2018 @03:42PM (#16277364)
Pigs are cheap and no one cares if you kill them.
Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by fjsolwmv on Wednesday January 31, 2018 @07:10PM (#16278736)
Not seeing how pigs are different from dolphins
Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by dboreham on Thursday February 01, 2018 @12:20AM (#16279776)
Have you tried Dolphin Bacon?
Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by muninn_ on Wednesday January 31, 2018 @02:42PM (#16276888)
Apologies for being a bit pedantic, but I had never heard of the phrase 'keystone species' and went on to look it up. While an elephant could be (and perhaps is) a keystone species, I don't find that the status of being such a species is relevant for discussions on consciousness of animals because of what this term actually means and includes. Starfish, for example, could be considered a keystone species.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything (I'm also a vegetarian) but just wanted to bring this up in case anybody else was a bit curious about what the term meant or had maybe heard of the term before and was confused as to why it was included here. I'm also clearly open to a arguments discussing why a keystone species is inherently conscious.

Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by kleer001 on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:39PM (#16285117)
Good catch. Keystone-ness has nothing to do with consciousness, of course. I was making a pile of reasons not to murder elephants.
Re:Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals by phreeza on Tuesday February 06, 2018 @01:57PM (#16318502)
To be clear my comment was intended to question killing pigs, not "not killing elephants".