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Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by temp-dude-87844 on Monday January 15, 2018 @04:52PM (#16153769)
This essay is an op-ed that lays the blame for most of California's poverty woes at the feet of a variety of liberal, leftist, progressive, and/or Democrat-initiated policies. From a conservative point-of-view, I can do better.

I propose that California's poverty woes are disproportionately due to a permanent and ever-growing underclass, whose existence and continued plight isn't caused by policies like rent control, welfare reform, and targeted eco-taxes that end up being regressive; but rather, is a simple consequence of individuals desperate for more prosperity and financial security making tough choices for the good of their families.

They are attracted to the cores and fringes of urban areas that play host to islands of productivity and wealth, where they work long hours and multiple jobs in an effort to provide. Some are later-generation Americans born to immigrant ancestors, some are youth from elsewhere in the US trying to flee metros with no growth, some are recent arrivals from regions of the world plagued by poverty and strife, and some are undocumented, working under the table and living in the shadows of mainstream society, more avoidant of law enforcement than groups who suffer the most violence at the hands of the law, and always at the mercy of their employer, handlers, and pure luck.

These groups are there because in California they can capture a larger portion of the effects of trickle-down than in North Carolina, Texas, or New York; and because the state-provided safety net, average people's compassion, and availability of human connections and capital allows them a small, but more meaningful chance of breaking out of the poverty trap.

In other words, the prosperity, concentration of wealth, human capital, and laxer attitude of California allows these marginalized groups a better shot than elsewhere -- especially places like Mississippi and West Virginia, whose poverty is primarily indigenous, and isn't among recent arrivals. California is somewhere where trickle-down does display elements of it working, at the very least in the hearts and minds of those attracted to the state. We can argue about its magnitude all day long, but to flagellate all manner unrelated policies after a myopic reading of statistics is absurd.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by asabjorn on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:41PM (#16154116)
As pointed out elsewhere there is a much simpler explanation available in the exclusionary zoning rules, that many feel in our daily lives.

* 41 percent of San Franciscans spend 30 to 50 percent on rent, despite a lot of rent control for longer-tenure residents and a population average income being $104k as well as median $77k.

* Zoning rules have restricted the housing supply so much that the median age of a San Francisco building is 1964, despite multiple boom times after that which should have lead to upzoning. http://demomemo.blogspot.com/2017/02/age-of-housing-stock-by...

* On the peninsula there is one housing unit for every four jobs. Cities have build offices and garnish the income from that, but forces the externalities on housing and infrastructure onto surrounding cities because city boundaries does not reflect where those fall

A lot of problems solve themselves when a one bedroom doesn't cost $3600 per month. We have plenty of space to build up and are mainly limited by zoning that.

There is no question in my mind that when even my tech friends can't afford to live on their own a normal middle class family is in trouble.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Aloha on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:11PM (#16154307)
I'd suggest to you that your bay area (really peninsula) focus is a little myopic, and that there is a whole lot more California than the Counties of San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara, Alameda, Contra Costa, Salano, Napa, Sonoma and Marin - heck, each of those counties have different problems.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by jdavis703 on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:28PM (#16154411)
There are two problems at work. One is the poverty of the Central Valley. I strongly suspect this poverty is caused by more traditional problems, such as lack of economic opportunity, poor educational systems and exploitive corporations.

Then there is the "poverty" that is caused by urban planning issues in urban and coastal California. There are families making six figures who can qualify for affordable housing programs here. In no way should a family bringing in six figures be just barely scraping by, but due to the increasing rent burden that’s where many find themselves.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by asabjorn on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @03:39AM (#16156667)
Facts support that this is a state-wide problem:

The Cal budget center presents these facts: http://calbudgetcenter.org/resources/californians-parts-stat...

* The problem is state-wide. Cost burdened or severely cost burdened renters; Far north 42%, San Francisco Bay Area 37.8%, Sacramento Region 38.4%, Central Valley 38.9%, Sierra Nevada 36.8%, Central Coast 42.1%, los angeles and south coast 46.1%, Inland Empire 42.7%

* more than half of California's renters and over a third of homeowners with mortgages face high housing costs

* 8 in 10 low income Californians have unaffordable housing costs

The US census shows that people without means can't afford the living costs are self-selecting themselves away:

* A snapshot of more recent U.S. Census migration numbers shows that nearly three-quarters of those who have left California for other states since 2007 earn less than $50k a year.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Aloha on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @01:49PM (#16160913)
Does not negate my point - baring some evidence, its not reasonable to assume that zoning is not the cause of a lack of affordable housing in the San Joaquin Valley.

If they had suggested merely that housing costs are an issue for californians, I would not have argued.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by asabjorn on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @02:28PM (#16161411)
Do you have any data or facts to back up your argument that there is no zoning issues in central valley?

Legislators seem to disagree with you and passed a bill to require relevant cities to zone for farmworker housing https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm... and there is another one proposed this year.

Everything I read attribute this to a lack of housing supply. https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/09/19/housing-affordability... and http://capitolweekly.net/crisis-affordable-housing-grips-cal...

For instance, Stockton leads California rent increases with a 10.4 percent increase in rental price between July 2016 and July 2017 and their home prices have increased 92% in the last 5 years. In a supply balanced market this would not happen as the landlors do not have leverage to increase rent this much, and developers/owners don't have the leverage to sell housing for this much more.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Aloha on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:14PM (#16153926)
I think you raise a very valid point.

I'd also suggest that unless you're looking at county adjusted poverty levels (as in adjusted to cost of living by county) - you're gonna end up with a skewed picture.

That said, the right is correct about something - once you get on the social safety net, its very hard to get off of it, because benefits don't gradually fade out as your income goes up, there is instead a cliff, and all of your social safety net benefits turn off at once - this is why I feel that means tested welfare is social ill, it helps too few, and doesnt provide a soft landing when you dont need help anymore. I'd much rather us do straight up income redistribution (in the form of a minimum income scheme) and medicaid for all.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by gnarbarian on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:45PM (#16154144)
Ya, could do a negative income tax bracket and eliminate all other forms of safety nets besides healthcare.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Aloha on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:00PM (#16154235)
I'd do it as a monthly check or electronic payment to every american over the age of 18.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by mFixman on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @09:05AM (#16158185)
This sounds like boon for landlords and other rent seekers.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by TheCoelacanth on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @10:02AM (#16158630)
Fund it with a land value tax, which is a good idea to cut down on rent seeking even without the negative income tax.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by gnarbarian on Monday January 15, 2018 @07:02PM (#16154620)
if you do it that way, the sum ends up being so small as to be of no consequence.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Aloha on Monday January 15, 2018 @07:25PM (#16154748)
about 1k a month, per adult - thats the idea - its meant to replace most of minimum wage.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by gnarbarian on Monday January 15, 2018 @07:37PM (#16154840)
Then you wouldn't be able to replace welfare. because their kids aren't 18. I'd say limit the payout to the bottom 10-20% in continuous graduations to eliminate any fiscal cliff.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Aloha on Monday January 15, 2018 @08:05PM (#16154986)
no fiscal cliff at all - you'd get the same 1k a month if you made $0 a year, or $150k a year.

I'd consider leaving intact WIC, because I look a a GMI mostly as a replacement for minimum wage.

I'd pay for it with a financial transactions tax (something minuscule like .001 cents on the dollar for any money transfer, and a VAT.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by gnarbarian on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @12:06AM (#16155978)
no dice, I don't want my taxes to increase by 3k so the government can give me back 1k.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Aloha on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @01:06AM (#16156175)
So say the government gives you 12k a year, and your taxes go up by 10k a year, wouldn't that still be beneficial to you?

Something like 30-40% of this program could be paid for by feeding in dollars existing programs, the lions share of the rest of it from the financial transactions tax (sucks if your business is high frequency trading), and a smaller portion from a VAT.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by simplemath__ on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:15PM (#16154326)
and what do we do when people abuse those systems? let them die?
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by gnarbarian on Monday January 15, 2018 @07:02PM (#16154612)
They abuse them already.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by simplemath__ on Monday January 15, 2018 @07:03PM (#16154624)
SO the penalty should be death, then?

edit: you dropped that "Sure, they abuse them now". I saw it.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by gnarbarian on Monday January 15, 2018 @07:18PM (#16154706)
if you provide someone every means of helping themselves and they still die I wouldn't feel guilty about it. Take their kids away though.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by simplemath__ on Monday January 15, 2018 @07:26PM (#16154751)
Is poverty a moral failing?
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by gnarbarian on Monday January 15, 2018 @07:34PM (#16154814)
>Is poverty a moral failing?

At what cost?

Minimization of poverty is important but I don't believe it can ever be totally eliminated. You and I just have different fundamental beliefs about human nature and motivation.

If the OP is right (and I think he is), the more safety nets and welfare programs there are the more poverty. This is because they have a learned helplessness and are subject to fiscal cliffs preventing them from escaping poverty.

in other words: Poverty ought to be minimized. Therefore, if giving people free shit increases poverty, we shouldn't do it.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Aloha on Monday January 15, 2018 @07:26PM (#16154753)
you make a system that is impossible to abuse short of creating fictitious people - means testing is what allows the existing system to be abused.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by simplemath__ on Monday January 15, 2018 @07:41PM (#16154868)
OK, i'll bite.

Give me an impossible to abuse welfare system

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Aloha on Monday January 15, 2018 @08:08PM (#16155003)
Guaranteed Minimum Income.

Everyone over the age of 18 gets a check from the government for 1,000 dollars a month. The only qualification to get the money, is being 18 years old, being alive, residing in the united states and being a citizen or permanent resident of the united states.

Short of creating fictitious people, with fictitious identity documentation, its virtually impossible to cheat it.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by newfoundglory on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:01PM (#16155202)
So don’t tell anyone that your grandma who lives with you died in her sleep. And definitely don’t mention that your 21 year old brother is off backpacking Asia (how long does he have to be gone for that to even be cheating?)
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Aloha on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:22PM (#16155284)
Well, social security fraud already happens, nothing new there, I'd likely blend this with social security anyhow - so you'd move to the social security schedule upon retirement - in no case however would anyone bring home less than they would under the minimum income scheme.

I'd probably allow anyone who was not working overseas for longer than a year to continue to draw it, its really about your permanent residence and where it is - on the other hand the number of americans who work abroad is astonishingly small - so probably not enough to worry about.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by newfoundglory on Monday January 15, 2018 @10:02PM (#16155459)
That doesn’t come even close to being “virtually impossible to cheat”.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Aloha on Monday January 15, 2018 @11:05PM (#16155739)
Explain to me how you'd cheat then?
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by newfoundglory on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @12:03AM (#16155969)
I just gave you two methods off the top of my head. I’m saying it is easy to cheat, not “virtually impossible” as you claimed.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Aloha on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @01:11AM (#16156191)
one of them I eliminated by defining the rules in such a way that it wouldnt be an issue - the other requires keeping a rotting dead body hidden somewhere.

Part of what a GMI would need to overcome is ensuring that we have an accurate tracking program - a death should trigger an semi-automated removal from the rolls - as in you need to present yourself.

No system is foolproof, and even the best one in the world is going to have upwards of 2-3% fraud - that said the social security administration historically has been VERY good about tracking them down, and remarkably successful at clawing overpayments back.

In the end, by eliminating means testing you close down a ton of venues for fraud.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by newfoundglory on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @03:27AM (#16156611)
> No system is foolproof, and even the best one in the world is going to have upwards of 2-3% fraud

I agree, and that’s why I would never say it was virtually impossible to cheat one.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by gnarbarian on Monday January 15, 2018 @08:16PM (#16155032)
You could take that 1k per month and buy crack. That's what he's trying to say.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Aloha on Monday January 15, 2018 @08:41PM (#16155125)
and so? they could do that with their paycheck too.

No system in the world is going to stop people from doing stupid shit - you try the best you can, but at the end of the day, people have to choose to do the right thing.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by gnarbarian on Monday January 15, 2018 @08:26PM (#16155067)
the one that doesn't exist.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by chiaro on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:19PM (#16153958)
These groups are there because in California they can capture a larger portion of the effects of trickle-down than in North Carolina, Texas, or New York; and because the state-provided safety net, average people's compassion, and availability of human connections and capital allows them a small, but more meaningful chance of breaking out of the poverty trap.

This is correct. Warm winters is also a significant pull-factor.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by aphextron on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:31PM (#16154041)
This is a fantastic point. I count myself among those desperate youth fleeing the stagnation that exists in the rest of our country. I’ve been able to, as a high school dropout, move here to California and teach myself enough skills to make more money than I could have remotely even imagined 5 years ago. I am homeless now though, drifting between motels because even though I have the money to pay for it, I simply cannot get someone to rent me a studio apartment within reasonable commuting distance to my east bay tech job. It’s miserable being unable to put down any roots here, to spend your days begging a landlord just to look at your application. But the thought of leaving and taking my shot at getting by anywhere else is terrifying. The rest of this country is slowly becoming either a racist red state hell hole, or a dead end pit of poverty and despair for anyone with ambition.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by _zachs on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:38PM (#16154094)
Let me get this straight, if you're not in California you're either in a racist, red state hell hole or a dead end pit of poverty and despair? Dropping out of high-school clearly did you wonders.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by newfoundglory on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:02PM (#16155208)
They said becoming, not is.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by talmand on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @10:25AM (#16158792)
So this person is not yet a total elitist jerk, but almost is. Got it.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by nickthemagicman on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @04:39AM (#16156889)
He's correct. The rest of the country is pretty bleak for the poor.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by hsitz on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:08PM (#16154292)
Maybe you've been through all your options, so excuse me if I'm being unhelpful or ignorant. But have you tried looking for a roommate(s)? Potentially you wouldn't even need to be on a lease that way, and you might make some good social connections. Admittedly, I'm 50+ and not up on the scene for 20-somethings just starting out. But back when that was me I moved to NYC and the Village Voice (newspaper) was full of ads for roommates. That was how many young people expected to live, i.e., in small apartment shared with others. There's nothing wrong with that, it can even be fun; you're young, enjoy it. Isn't this still a common thing in high rent urban areas, the natural way of 20-something living?
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by 0xB31B1B on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:25PM (#16154396)
The problem is that in many urban areas especially in CA, there aren’t many viable housing options for those who are mid career and want to live alone or start a family. “Just get some roommates, we did that when I was young” can be a little condescending to a 35 year old someone making 150k/year.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by aphextron on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:14PM (#16154320)
Roommates are definitely an option, and I did that for a few years when first moving out here. But I'm pushing 30 now and totally over that lifestyle. It makes me sad to realize this is probably the only realistic option for sticking around long term though.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by xor1 on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:22PM (#16154377)
Having roommates in your 30s isn't that weird in LA, SF, and NYC.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by aphextron on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:31PM (#16154424)
>Having roommates in your 30s isn't that weird in LA, SF, and NYC.

Agreed, but I think it's weird that that isn't weird. Our parents' generation were able to buy a home, save for retirement, and raise a family on one person's income. Now we sign over half our monthly income to a landlord, and spend the rest on Avocado Toast.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by hsitz on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:26PM (#16155302)
My generation is probably the same as your parents, and even then there certainly weren't many one-income homes doing those things in NYC, SF, or LA. Also, I would say that this generation has gotten used to larger homes and more luxury (e.g., lots of bathrooms). These things simply weren't as normal thirty years ago. (It's the same with cars, which are all bigger and have more luxuries than cars of thirty years ago. Just compare a current Honda Civic with a Civic of 1987.)

The sort of lifestyle you describe is still easily available to two-income families, at least, (maybe one-and-a-half) in most mid-sized cities even in many larger cities. Those cities are mostly great for raising a family. For a single person, often not so much.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Kalium on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @05:38AM (#16157174)
So I hear you want to talk about zoning...
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by LearnerHerzog on Monday January 15, 2018 @07:10PM (#16154669)
roommates are normal at any age including 40s and 50s
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by TheCoelacanth on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @10:12AM (#16158687)
At that age peoples' roommates are usually their spouse and their children. If they need to have roommates in addition to those, that is a big problem because with current trends it won't take much discouragement from having children to result in a declining population.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by someguydave on Monday January 15, 2018 @10:58PM (#16155701)
Especially if you are poor. People making $150k/yr in the bay area are actually pretty poor, compared to the cost of living.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by thousandautumns on Tuesday January 16, 2018 @09:28AM (#16158364)
> The rest of this country is slowly becoming either a racist red state hell hole, or a dead end pit of poverty and despair for anyone with ambition.

Not really, but it is an increasingly popular excuse for people trying to mentally justify the stupid decision to stick it out as a homeless person in California.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by jacobolus on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:18PM (#16153949)
You might also add the weather. Living on the street, out of a car, in a trailer home, or in a poorly insulated small apartment/house without heating is a lot more comfortable in many parts of CA than in places with harsh winters.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by DoreenMichele on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:20PM (#16153974)
I am absolutely sure that the weather actively attracts homeless individuals, some of whom travel long distances while homeless to take advantage of the dry, temperate weather in some parts of California.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by temp-dude-87844 on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:08PM (#16154295)
Homelessness is a complex problem, but its mechanisms are largely outside of what I outlined in the parent post. California has 12% of the population of the US but 24% of those individuals accounted as 'homeless'; New York State has 6.1% of the US population but 16% of those homeless. This shows a larger homeless-to-population ratio in New York State than in California.

However, the most outwardly visible facet of homelessness is individuals who are unsheltered, i.e. sleeping in public places or vehicles. The states with the highest rates of unsheltered people (out of total of those experiencing homelessness) was in California, Nevada, and Hawaii, Oregon, and Mississippi [1]. On the other hand, the statewide percentages themselves are not particularly insightful as to the magnitude of the problem, as they aren't weighed by the total number of individuals.

Surprisingly, raw population of unsheltered homeless individuals per metropolitan area, or as a share of total population in a metropolitan area, is a metric rarely aggregated in reports, but from digging though the data [2], one can see that the absolute number of unsheltered homeless individuals is indeed highest in Los Angeles (34000+), San Francisco (~9000), Seattle (~5000+), and New York City (4000+). Weather is certainly a factor in outcomes of unsheltered individuals, but I'm not convinced weather is a factor in contributing causes in the particular concentration of people. It appears that New York City seems to muster more assistance to individuals experiencing homelessness than Los Angeles, where in the latter more people end up on the streets, and San Francisco's problem is, in both absolute and relative terms, not as acute as that of Los Angeles, despite public perception occasionally being the contrary.

Sources: [1] https://www.hudexchange.info/resources/documents/2017-AHAR-P... [2] https://endhomelessness.org/resource/homelessness-populous-u...

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by DoreenMichele on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:18PM (#16154344)
I am really not clear what your point is. But here are my "sources," fwiw:

I had a class in Homelessness and Public Policy from SFSU some years ago. I lived in California a total of 12 it 13 years, iirc. Five and half of those were as a homeless person.

I am author of the blog the San Diego Homeless Survival Guide, which means I hear from both homeless individuals and reporters periodically. I still participate on a homeless discussion forum where it is not uncommon for people to ask where they should move to as a homeless person. I traveled from Georgia to San Diego as a homeless person. I went there in part for the dry, temperate weather.

I recently got off the street in part by traveling to someplace cheaper. It is much wetter here than the places I lived while homeless. Nonetheless, it is a relatively temperate part of Washington and seems to attract a lot of homeless. I am fairly confident the relatively temperate weather is a factor.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by temp-dude-87844 on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:32PM (#16154431)
I don't intend to discount your personal experiences at all, but in San Francisco's 2017 report [1] on homelessness, 69% of counted individuals reported that they were living in SF at the time they became homeless, and of those, 55% had lived in SF for 10 or more years.

Only 10% of total counted reported living outside of California when they became homeless. I can intuitively understand that weather may be a draw, but San Francisco's findings this year, as well as in 2015 don't appear to back that a majority of those experiencing homelessness in San Francisco are travelling there from outside the state.

[1] http://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-SF-Poin...

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by DoreenMichele on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:36PM (#16154462)
I did not say it accounts for a majority of homeless Californians. If it accounts for even 5 percent, that would be a lot of people. Your figure of 10 percent coming from out of state actually supports my assertion that homeless people actually travel to California while homeless. The only thing missing is data as to why they made that decision.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by hindsightbias on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:04PM (#16153846)
Well done.

If only we shut the borders like those great red states want to do, we'd have a lot fewer poor people and our stats would be higher!

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by optimuspaul on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:11PM (#16153899)
Do you have any facts to back up your speculation that an "open" border has anything to do with the problems described?
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by rconti on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:19PM (#16153960)
The Op-Ed called it the poverty trap: "55% of immigrant families in the state get some kind of means-tested benefits, compared with just 30% of natives."

However, it failed to cite any kind of causality. It seems just as likely that those kinds of benefits are precisely why they come here.

I'd also be interested in knowing if it's truly a trap -- do immigrant families come here, get those benefits, then move up? Or is it the same 55% decade after decade?

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by optimuspaul on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:21PM (#16153982)
immigrants via a loose border? or immigrants that arrived legally? Or immigrants that just came from other states? What does native mean in this context?
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by seanmcdirmid on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:21PM (#16154371)
Immigrants from other states vs. native Californians.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Robotbeat on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:20PM (#16153976)
I think his comment was tongue in cheek. The stats might look higher without immigrants, but that doesn't mean the problem is solved.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by Para2016 on Monday January 15, 2018 @05:39PM (#16154098)
For sure it wasn't a serious comment, but there is a more serious facet of it I think. If our states aren't able to properly deal with the poverty that's already here, why are we inviting more of it in?

US psychiatric, APS, and CPS services are poor, and can't adequately deal with the needs of those already here. It's only going to get worse.

Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by threatofrain on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:52PM (#16154564)
I'd also add that being homeless in some states seems like a far more untenable proposition, out in those middle states where the climate gets extreme.
Re:California has the highest poverty rate in the USA by partycoder on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:21PM (#16154369)
No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_Sta...

This article has some factual information about it, including statistics from census data and some details. e.g: substance abuse, people being priced out of their homes, etc.

I would keep politics and ideology aside.