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Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by cutler on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:26PM (#16062894)
Society is sick, let's face it, and technology is largely to blame. We just can't see the danger in technology so long as we're blinded by everything shiny. Human beings are primarily social beings and no, that does not mean peering at each other through the alienating window of a mobile phone screen.

In 1969, at the age of 9, I could be left to play with my friends and wander several miles from home without any sense of danger. Days were occupied with spports or just hanging out then reading and TV in the evening. There was balance because we had less technology. The ageing mill towns of East Lancashire, UK, still enjoyed a culture of trust and respect for your neighbours such that you could leave your front door open without fear of theft. Parents stressd "playing out" and being "out of the house" but it didn't stop kids from achieving academically.

The thought of hiding in my room and hardly ever seeing my friends face-to-face would have been soul-destroying. Chess, games, cricket and football was life itself in my teens up to about 15 when the music scene and girls became the main fascination. These were all social activities and I can't imagine those glorious teenage years spent hidden in my room staring at a phone screen as a substitute for real human contact. It's unthinkable.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:30PM (#16062940)
> Society is sick, let's face it, and technology is largely to blame.

Technology is never to blame for anything, because technology is not a moral actor; people may be to blame for the manner in which they use technology.

OTOH, people have been falsely conflating “the youth of today seem to have a different lifestyle than I preferred in my youth” with “society is sick” for at least as long as we have historical evidence of what people thought.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by workthrowaway27 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:44PM (#16063075)
There's lots of evidence that people in their early 20s and under are psychologically different than older people (higher rates of anxiety/depression at the same age, etc.). Anecdotally, I've noticed that people don't talk to strangers as much on planes anymore as when I was a child.

I guess you could argue that technology isn't to blame, but technology changes people. And it's hard not to use technology when it's so pervasive. At work I have a hard time not eating donuts when someone brings them in. Technology is similar. If everyone around you is on their phone or facebook or whatever it takes a lot of willpower/willingness to be different to not do the same.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by vorotato on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:13PM (#16063422)
Or it could be the fact that they paid 11 times as much as their parents for college and then couldn't get a job. Technology is a common scapegoat, it's not that it has 0 effect on us. Obviously fear of missing out is a real thing. However its almost never the dominating problem in our lives.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by floatboth on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:42PM (#16063729)
Did people really talk to strangers on public transportation back in the old days? Or did they actually read books, magazines and newspapers?
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by oh_sigh on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:38PM (#16064304)
Random NYC shot from the 50s: http://i.imgur.com/SoG7Yqh.jpg
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by ahartman00 on Thursday January 04, 2018 @12:51PM (#16072340)
Not sure if there is any research, but I have noticed that younger people seem to be more open to talking about mental illnesses like depression. I have even seen people on Twitch talking about their illness to the chat! That was unthinkable in my day, and I'm only in my low 30's.

If there is less stigma in admitting it, people are going to come forward more. Thus more cases are recorded. Which is good, as then they can get help. I remember people saying you need to see a shrink as an insult. Imagine people making fun of you for seeing a doctor about your broken leg!

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by eeZah7Ux on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @05:24PM (#16065891)
You are confusing technology, defined as "the application of scientific knowledge for practical purposes", with smartphone/OS design choices taken by companies that want to create addiction in users.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by specialist on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:05PM (#16065133)
Technology, progress are moral.

Postman argues that omitting (excluding) technology from discussion of the human condition is exactly the problem. All changes lead to winners and losers. It's both denial and hubris to not even update the ledger.

Technopoly: The Surrender of Culture to Technology http://a.co/3WNmkU3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technopoly

Further, Donald Norman argues every thing (technology, tool) has its own affordances, for better or worse. Which is opposite to the myopia captured in the cliche "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by boomlinde on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @05:34PM (#16065987)
> Technology is never to blame for anything, because technology is not a moral actor; people may be to blame for the manner in which they use technology.

For a very narrow and incomplete definition of technology, sure. Technology literally means the science of craft. Technology isn't just the product, its something you practice when you're engineering and inventing a means to an end. In practicing technology, you make choices in identifying what problems to solve, how, and whether they are problems in the first place. Such choices are subject to morality. In that sense you can indeed blame technology.

I don't think there's ever been a discussion about the ethics of technology here without someone trying to pull the brakes by pointing out that inanimate things themselves are not moral actors, but let's face it, if someone participates in discussion on this site their IQ is probably higher than 70, and understand that already. Assume for a minute, at least for the sake of discussion, that this isn't the point GP is trying to make.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by kiliantics on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:22PM (#16067783)
I think you're right that technology is not to blame, though it could be a factor due to how we relate with technology.

I think society is still sick and it's because we are more alienated[0] from our roles in it than we ever have been. This is somewhat connected with our use of modern technology but has more to do with our economic relations with each other and with the material world.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by hyperbovine on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:26PM (#16064192)
Right, and guns don't kill people.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by vorotato on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:09PM (#16063378)
This argument has been made every single decade. Socrates even voiced concerns about writing and how it creates an illusion of understanding. It's been wrong every decade since and is wrong today.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by wu-ikkyu on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:36PM (#16064830)
"When new technologies impose themselves on societies long habituated to older technologies, anxieties of all kinds result"

-Marshall McLuhan

There is an element of truth to those anxieties. New forms of media create new spatial relationships that are often destructive to previous forms.

So in a sense, new media can be highly destructive of the way people have perceived reality their whole lives:

>As I read and contemplated the subject, behold! that very discontentment which Master Hugh had predicted would follow my learning to read had already come, to torment and sting my soul to unutterable anguish. As I writhed under it, I would at times feel that learning to read had been a curse rather than a blessing. It had given me a view of my wretched condition, without the remedy. It opened my eyes to the horrible pit, but to no ladder upon which to get out. In moments of agony, I envied my fellow-slaves for their stupidity. I have often wished myself a beast. I preferred the condition of the meanest reptile to my own. Any thing, no matter what, to get rid of thinking! It was this everlasting thinking of my condition that tormented me. There was no getting rid of it. It was pressed upon me by every object within sight or hearing, animate or inanimate. The silver trump of freedom had roused my soul to eternal wakefulness. Freedom now appeared, to disappear no more forever. It was heard in every sound, and seen in every thing. It was ever present to torment me with a sense of my wretched condition. I saw nothing without seeing it, I heard nothing without hearing it, and felt nothing without feeling it. It looked from every star, it smiled in every calm, breathed in every wind, and moved in every storm.

-Frederick Douglass on learning how to read as a slave (which was illegal)

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by lowracle on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:26PM (#16064737)
If we are talking about the same thing, Socrates actually said that writing an argumentation was bad because words are fixed and your adversary can give them interpretations that don't fit what you had in mind. I don't think he was against the technology of writing, he just made a point that is still true today. And it is not because technology has been beneficial in its infancy, that it will keep helping us. Current concerns about technology are supported by scientific facts. Before, it was mainly fearmongering and rumors. (Or was it ? If you have scientific study about the negative effects of technology back then..)
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by BjoernKW on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:18PM (#16064112)
> Society is sick, let's face it, and technology is largely to blame.

[ ... ]

> In 1969, at the age of 9, I could be left to play with my friends and wander several miles from home without any sense of danger.

How's technology to blame for helicopter parenting, fear of terrorism and crime in general, the notion there seemingly is a nonce behind every street corner and similarly irrational ideas and behaviours rampant today?

While social media does its share to exacerbate these fears and overly cautious behaviour so does TV and other more traditional media.

The underlying cause isn't technology but what we allow others to do to us with it.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by wu-ikkyu on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:24PM (#16064709)
>How's technology to blame for helicopter parenting, fear of terrorism and crime in general, the notion there seemingly is a nonce behind every street corner and similarly irrational ideas and behaviours rampant today?

It seems obvious that this is the result of fear mongering-profiteering in the news media.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by BjoernKW on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:06PM (#16065136)
Which is something that has existed for a long time and long before 1969 and the advent of modern news media or social media. News has always been about entertainment as well as information. Otherwise there wouldn't have been any newspapers and we'd all be reading Reuters or AFP.

Instead of superficially blaming technology for our failings we had better find out what the actual causes of these failings are and remedy those.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by cirath on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:35PM (#16063654)
> The ageing mill towns of East Lancashire, UK, still enjoyed a culture of trust and respect for your neighbours such that you could leave your front door open without fear of theft.

That is a strange line to include there, as I am not sure how people staying inside and having very little social life would erode public trust in the idea that your house won't be robbed while you're away. There are hundreds of factors that play into the changing landscape of trust, but I know my small town parents still have no real concern leaving the door unlocked in their small town of ~1000 or so people.

Personally, I'd say the trust issue has to do with the fact that the world population has almost perfectly doubled since 1969, and humanity's short history has not prepared us for the population explosion that has occurred over the last 150 years. We live closer together than ever before -- but cities have never really been safe, and serial killing predates electricity (oddly) without even getting near to modern technology or us collectively being "blinded by everything shiny".

The issue with our population now is that our cities are larger, there are fewer small towns and rural areas, hence the erosion of trust.

I think Dunbar's Number (colloquially the Monkeysphere) kind of covers why we aren't handling the explosion of social circles well. But that can't be blamed completely on technology.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by abecode on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:49PM (#16064967)
> Society is sick, let's face it, and technology is largely to blame.

Maybe birthrate is more reasonable. Anecdotally, my nephew is an only child and he doesn't get to run around a lot (nor does he have a lot of desire to). When I was growing up in the 80's, it seemed like families were bigger, so it was less of a big deal if one kid drowns while swimming in the river or blows up playing with gasoline. If you only have one kid, you're probably less likely to attribute cliff jumping or playing with gasoline to "just kids being kids".

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by prepend on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @07:22PM (#16066827)
I loved being my room playing legos it reading novels or the encyclopedia. I suppose there are lots of different types of people, but I liked being alone even when there weren’t screens.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by thraweigh666 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:43PM (#16063749)
Surely you knew multiculturalism would destroy your high-trust homogeneous society. If not, the lesson is now very clear.

It's not too late. We can go back.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by cirath on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:50PM (#16063827)
Woah now, let's not make any wild leaps here.

The Roman Empire was fantastically multicultural at its high points and its low. The United States has never been homogeneous, no matter where in its history you find yourself -- the low or the high points.

In fact, I (and many others) would argue that a lot of the meteoric rise of the United States occurred on the backs of labor that did not match the current ideals of those far enough right to want a homogeneous United States -- whether it was black slavery, cheap Chinese labor, late 19th century immigration towards the American Dream...

There is more to the equation than homogeneity is what I am saying here.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by majormajor on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:27PM (#16064199)
The most stereotypically dangerous areas (where you get the stories that drive a lot of the helicopter parenting and such) are also highly stratified and segregated ones. New York, LA, Chicago are known for their high-crime areas, but also have money and cost of living presenting far harder barriers to integrated, multicultural local neighborhoods than anyway in the more-stereotypically-"actively racist" urban southern part of the country.

My 80s/90s childhood was one of "high-trust" ethnic diversity in just such a place, since my family didn't run in the elite, isolated-private-school/gated-suburbs circles. I had friends of every background, and so did most everyone else I knew, it was just how things were, not some liberal hollywood propaganda job. Somewhere like inside-the-perimeter Atlanta isn't perfect by any means, but it's actual diversity seems to make it way less sneakily unintentionally racist than NYC or SF. Or, worse, someone in random-white-person-ville small midwestern town who hears about Chicago gangs in the news.

And now I see a bunch of people online scared of / angry about diversity or its portrayals who seem completely confused by the concept of a boba joint with local latinos, blacks, whites, and asians all as customers in the same shop - cause if a movie portrayed a group like that, you know it would get called out for "SJW brainwashing" - so it seems like the argument is completely backward. The more you actually encounter and interact with people who don't share your ethnicity, the more trust you build. While the more you segregate minorities into clusters of poverty and desperation, the more you'll fear crime and so on.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by cirath on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:49PM (#16064413)
That idea is not new, either -- we just have a collective propensity to forget hard lessons.

>Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. -Mark Twain

The strange irony is that you no longer have to travel very far to meet a broad range of people, but still so many avoid leaving their gated communities.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by Amezarak on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:13PM (#16065207)
I don't know if he's really worth responding to, but it really depends on your definition of 'homogeneous'. Historically, the US was certainly much more homogeneous in the past.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_d...

You mention Chinese labor, for example, but the Asian presence in the US was below 1% until 1980. There were only three demographics that really existed in any numbers in US history up until the past few decades: Native Americans (mostly genocided or blended with other categories, and not counted as part of the population until this happened), whites (80-90% until 1980s), and the black people who were mostly either slaves or descended from slaves (fluctuated between 10 and 20%). Since the 1980s, the Hispanic population has seen a massive upsurge, with Asians also increased as a proportion of the population by almost 5x, and "Other" going from basically 0% to 6%.

This is not exactly a diverse picture, even if it isn't 100% homogeneous.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by richardknop on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:23PM (#16065305)
> The Roman Empire was fantastically multicultural at its high points and its low.

Citation needed. As far as I am aware from my understanding of history, Roman Empire was very large geographically but there were homogeneous cultures / tribes living in separate areas of the vast empire. You had Germanic tribes living together in proximity, same with Gauls, Eastern tribes like Vandals or Visigoths, local cultures also inhabited parts of Roman Empire outside of European continent such as Northern Africa or Israel.

This should be evident as Europe was very homogeneous until early 20th century still with societies being mainly composed of similar peoples in their respective areas and this was obviously a continuation of Roman Empire’s former tribes.

Trying to make a comparison with current world where you have melting pots in places like London or New York might be inaccurate. But I’d like to be educated on this issue more.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by vim_wannabe on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:56PM (#16065034)
The Roman empire contained a lot of geographically segregated cultures. There was definitely a lot of influence on each other over time but 'when in Rome' didn't come out of nowhere.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by dang on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:19PM (#16065272)
We've banned this account for reasons explained here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16065249.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by yakitori on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:08PM (#16064007)
> that does not mean peering at each other through the alienating window of a mobile phone screen.

Says who? You are falling into the trap every old person does. Thinking their youth was great and that society is going to crumble since you are on your way out and the kids today didn't live like you did.

> In 1969, at the age of 9, I could be left to play with my friends and wander several miles from home without any sense of danger.

The more things change, the more things stay the same. When you were 9, your grandparents and other old people were saying the same thing. Society is falling apart. Kids are sat in front of "idiot boxes", turntables, etc. Or wasting time playing silly games or rotting their brains listening to rock and roll.

When I was growing up in the 90s, old people were blaming MTV, gangsta rap and 3 way phone conservations for the end of society.

> There was balance because we had less technology

Not compared to your grandparents.

> It's unthinkable.

It's unthinkable because you are old and out of touch. Kids today do all the things you did. Maybe not as much. They go to school. Interact with their classmates. Hang out with their neighborhood friends. Play stickball, football, etc.

So don't worry. Society will be fine without you and life will go on. Who knows, when I get to be your age, I'll be saying how VR tech is ruining kids. I hope not.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by dang on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:21PM (#16065289)
This crosses into personal attack, and several of your other comments are bordering on breaking the site guidelines if not breaking them outright. Would you please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and make a course correction? We're looking for thoughtful, substantive discussion here.