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Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by spodek on Monday January 01, 2018 @08:23AM (#16045972)
Maybe because I love Greenwich Village, Jane Jacobs, and Henry Thoreau, or maybe because between Steve Jobs' and Bill Gates' legacies, I chose Richard Stallman's, but I've never felt any appeal from Silicon Valley.

Maybe visiting might change my view, but the realizations in the article seem obvious and late enough that I think I understand the appeal but don't share the values.

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by wpietri on Monday January 01, 2018 @10:45AM (#16046458)
There was a reply to this, now deleted, that I thought had an excellent point. I suspect the poster did not enjoy the immediate downvotes that come from criticizing Silicon Valley orthodoxies, so I want to paraphrase it.

The poster, a European, said that one of the things they liked about HN was that when the discussion drifted too deep into an SV-centric view, people from other parts of the world would often provide a useful corrective that would then be upvoted.

I appreciate that too, although as the treatment of the poster's comment demonstrated, it's not perfect. I think too many SV orthodoxies are vigorously defended here. The poster gave a footnote with a short list of what they called "Silicon Valley mindcuffs", and I suspect that's what got the instant downvotes.

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by harryf on Monday January 01, 2018 @07:57PM (#16049025)
> The poster, a European, said that one of the things they liked about HN was that when the discussion drifted too deep into an SV-centric view, people from other parts of the world would often provide a useful corrective that would then be upvoted.

It's actually fascinating to observe how the "tone" of HN varies through the day. My impression (I haven't carefully analyzed) is that during the morning in Europe you tend to have more left leaning points of view politically and more advocacy of Stallman-esque Open Source.

Once the US gets online though the political spectrum of opinions shifts right and towards Libiterianism. You also have people working at places like Google and Facebook adding their 2 cents, which tends to lead to "moral outrage" (European) vs "here's the reality" (US).

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by dsfyu404ed on Monday January 01, 2018 @08:23PM (#16049133)
If your point is not well argued you'll get a few down-votes. If you point is very well argued you'll get a lot of down-votes. Nothing makes people down-vote more than an opinion they don't like but can't easily refute or dismiss.
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by wpietri on Monday January 01, 2018 @10:38PM (#16049686)
This is a very interesting theory! I hope somebody gets a bee in their bonnet enough to gather some data.
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by viridian on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @08:16AM (#16060682)
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Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by killjoywashere on Monday January 01, 2018 @01:23PM (#16047231)
What were the mindcuffs?! Examples? What a great word!
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by bertil on Monday January 01, 2018 @03:45PM (#16047950)
Common ones: everyone speaks English or pays in dollars. People are not familiar with Chinese internet, or even non-American-centric companies. People have access to some local service (typically delivery services or local chains) or are familiar with their idiosyncrasies, including Amazon (Amazon is only present in 11 countries https://services.amazon.com/global-selling/global-selling-gu...). Issues around food or water quality are very local; American conspiracy tropes.

Less common are understanding of legal issues, typically common law needs at least one case to clarify an issue as opposed to positive law countries; the right to bear arms is a big one, so is American-style freedom-of-speech.

More specific are things like: non-American universities provide a good education, non-American companies can innovate meaningfully, tipping is omnipresent in services, keyboard layouts, American references in literature, sport, movies, etc.

One of the latest obvious examples of such mindcuffs outside of HN is Apple’s announcement around battery replacement: it’s impossible to find conditions that are not meant for the US market. You can redirect the offer to local stores or find it there. That is actually quite typical of Apple, in spite of 60% of their sales being outside of the US.

I have made the mistake to point at similar mindcuffs on HN and I will not do it again.

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by dsfyu404ed on Monday January 01, 2018 @08:28PM (#16049149)
It's worth adding that these mindcuffs are more tied to social class and one's political leanings than they are to geography.
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by omnimus on Tuesday January 02, 2018 @02:27AM (#16050446)
How? Can you explain?

Also aren't political views geographicaly tied?

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by dsfyu404ed on Tuesday January 02, 2018 @06:30AM (#16051278)
They are to some extent but my point is that a doctor from NYC or Austin TX is more likely to think like someone from SV than a programmer from Boise or Bangor.

The SV way of thinking is present to some extent in most urban people of similiar socioeconomic class. A plumber from SF will not necessarily take the same things for granted that a programmer from SF will.

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by wpietri on Tuesday January 02, 2018 @10:40AM (#16052437)
I think class is definitely a part of it, but I believe SV's paradigm is notably distinct from other geographies. A programmer from Chicago is much less likely to talk about disruption as an unalloyed good, or to take a militant free-speech line that refuses to consider race or class.
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by wpietri on Monday January 01, 2018 @02:09PM (#16047476)
I wanted to strike a balance between conveying the point and respecting the poster's deletion, so I left out those specifics. But I hope the poster turns that list into an expanded essay; I thought they were great. And yes, I loved the word.
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by amelius on Monday January 01, 2018 @11:33AM (#16046664)
The (disruptive) power of Silicon Valley stems mainly from investors. Make a pile of money high enough, and you can disrupt anything; that's the premise, basically.

It is not really the power of tech that we should be worried about, but instead the power of investment without regard for anything other than shareholder returns. Google and Facebook could be better companies if they didn't have to sell their users to their real customers.

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by potluckyears on Monday January 01, 2018 @03:35PM (#16047892)
Yeah! The rise of addictive, short-term reward technologies seems deeply tied to the fact that Silicon Valley companies make money based on showing growth numbers to investors.

Business models shape the space of architectures that companies are incentivized and disincentivized to make. For people that don't like the current landscape of addictive free technologies, I'd say Silicon Valley has a business model problem, not a technology problem.

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by dwaltrip on Monday January 01, 2018 @11:43AM (#16046715)
The money doesn't do it alone. You can't have technological disruption without technology.
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by rhizome on Monday January 01, 2018 @04:11PM (#16048061)
What technology has Facebook given us besides React, a PHP compiler and low-power server racks? For that matter, what does Facebook even disrupt?

I venture that the technology is usually already there, but the business exploitation is what's different in the dominant companies.

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by dwaltrip on Monday January 01, 2018 @04:21PM (#16048121)
Facebook operates mostly in the realm of social communication/organization and general information sharing, so that is where the "disruption" would take place.

I'm rather skeptical of Facebook though. I think there are major issues with its current incarnation.

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by rhizome on Tuesday January 02, 2018 @08:38PM (#16057591)
Facebook operates mostly in the realm of social communication/organization and general information sharing, so that is where the "disruption" would take place.

Sure, but GP was talking about technological disruption.

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by dwaltrip on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:05AM (#16059347)
Facebook uses technology to carry out its core operations, so would not they be performing technological disruption of the social domain?
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by rhizome on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:18PM (#16063474)
If they meant social they would have said social.
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by fourthark on Monday January 01, 2018 @07:58PM (#16049030)
It disrupts social interaction.
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by moretai on Monday January 01, 2018 @11:38AM (#16046688)
I'm sorry, but this comment is just beautiful
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by doug1001 on Monday January 01, 2018 @12:08PM (#16046844)
i doubt visiting would change your view, because your view--ie, what is the "appeal" and the "values" sounds about right. I've been here eight years and if there's some magic, i haven't seen it yet--just stale ideas conceived in isolation and enough frantic iteration to convince someone to pay for more adolescent experiment
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by EGreg on Monday January 01, 2018 @09:37AM (#16046185)
What do you do in NYC?

Do you think it's worth it to make a location-based social activity layer for existing social forums like HN? So people could meet up, date, hire for jobs etc.

No one's actual location would be revealed. But when people post something, others would know they are probably nearby.

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by OliverJones on Monday January 01, 2018 @10:15AM (#16046320)
With respect, that's been done. It was called Yik Yak. It was a disaster for the high school kids of my neighborhood; the geographic steering of messages allowed them to insult and stalk one another. The FOMO factor (fear of missing out) so carefully instilled in them by Instagram and the like made it very hard for them to just delete the app.
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by CydeWeys on Monday January 01, 2018 @10:43AM (#16046449)
That's not a fundamental flaw with the idea though, it's just that the specific community Yik Yak developed was terrible. You could do the same thing but have it target, say, LinkedIn's demographic instead of old-time MySpace's.

There actually was a startup in DC that was doing something like this, called SocialRadar. They had a lot of funding but failed due to lack of adoption. They had a real name policy and didn't have any of the same problems that Yik Yak did.

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by Clubber on Monday January 01, 2018 @11:21AM (#16046609)
As an interesting aside, that's how BBS's worked pre internet. Long distances calls were so expensive, BBS forums were largely localized. We would have get togethers and people's houses or at libraries, to meet each other once or twice a year, drink beer, play volleyball, etc.
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by EGreg on Monday January 01, 2018 @12:30PM (#16046964)
Why do you think the parent was so heavily downvoted?
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by mantas on Monday January 01, 2018 @01:11PM (#16047172)
The NYC question did sound weird and somewhat like ad-hominem attack. You probably wanted to ask why OP found NYC better than SV?

P.S. I didn't downvote vote

Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by EGreg on Monday January 01, 2018 @01:39PM (#16047313)
Ah. I live in NYC and considered get together given the subject matter of the comment. I was asking the guy what kind of work he does. LOL.
Re:Former Google and Facebook execs are sounding alarms abou... by Clubber on Monday January 01, 2018 @12:37PM (#16047000)
No friggin idea.