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Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by _greim_ on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @03:15AM (#15958588)
> Drivers will have to shed their attachment to the sound, smell and feel of gas-powered engines.

I for one will not feel the least bit sad when continuous, smooth acceleration becomes the norm, and lurchy, awkward automatic transmissions fade into distant memory.

I'll probably feel slightly nostalgic about the sound and smell of fuel-burning cars someday, but it won't inform my buying choices in the slightest.

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by Swizec on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @03:23AM (#15958623)
There are transmissions other than automatic. And I agree, they’re better if you know what you’re doing.

But modern high-end automatics are in fact smoother than most humans. Racecar drivers might be smoother still but even they use flappypadle automatic sequential gearboxes at the very top end of racing because even the best trained humans are just too slow.

Curiously, racing electric cars use gearboxes too.

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by gambiting on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @03:40AM (#15958684)
Yep. ZF 8 speed automatic, Mercedes new 9 speed dual clutch, are probably the smoothest transmissions available on the market. I've got years of experience of driving manual cars and I can't even pretend that I would be able to change gears as smoothly as those boxes. And I drive a Mercedes-AMG with a 7-speed dual clutch and under hard acceleration that box changes gears within 100ms(actual number supplied by AMG) - there's no way a human could change gears that quickly.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by clouddrover on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @03:59AM (#15958764)
> Curiously, racing electric cars use gearboxes too.

Some do and some don't in Formula E:

http://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2016/october/insight-how-...

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by hodgesrm on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @11:58AM (#15961593)
Speaking as a manual transmission fan I agree fully with your assessment about current automatics. My BMW 328d xDrive ships with an 8-speed automatic transmission that shifts at least as well as I can myself under normal road conditions. It really changes the equation for manual vs. automatic.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by audunw on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @08:45AM (#15960108)
> I'll probably feel slightly nostalgic about the sound and smell of fuel-burning cars someday, but it won't inform my buying choices in the slightest.

The sound can be pleasing, but the smell? I always thought gasoline smells and exhaust fumes smell awful. Maybe it's because I never owned an ICE vehicle myself.

Fueling a car is a very unpleasant experience to me.

It's part of the reason why, after my last road-trip, my wife and I decided we would rather wait for the EV to charge (and grab some food, stretch legs, maybe even a short hike etc.) than to borrow or rent an ICE. To be fair though, the other reason is the ICE we usually borrow is stick shift, so the difference in comfort when driving is huge, especially on curvy roads (In addition to no gear shifting, EVs usually do a lot of regenerative breaking when releasing the gas pedal, so you don't have to use the break pedal as much. I really missed that).

Some here have commented that the sound can be a safety feature. A lot of EVs/hybrids already have added that, but generally only at low speeds. Sometime it can be turned off, so if don't want to disrupt the neighbors, like late at night, you can turn disable it (since it's on by default, I'd think people would drive extra carefully if they turn it off).

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by _greim_ on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @12:28PM (#15961889)
> but the smell?

Yes! Well admittedly, I have somewhat of a redneck past. [cue Ben Fold's Five music.] Having grown up in small-town Midwest and worked on Farms the smell of gasoline is linked to lots of boyhood memories and male-bonding experiences :)

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by wojt_eu on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @03:59AM (#15958766)
I already feel nostalgic about gas-powered cars, their place is alongside steam locomotives as movie props and tourist attractions. Imagine people doing gas-punk cosplay in a couple of decades.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by farrisbris on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:51AM (#15959028)
I really really really do not share that nostalgia. I live in a city center and the only amount significant source of noise is from cars/buses. Sure you will have sirens or people shouting every now and again, but there is a constant buzzing sound from motors that goes on throughout the day and most of the night. I moved from a relatively quiet neighbourhood to where i am a few years ago, and the sound of motors ( and the smell. Lets not forget that cars smell ) is the only thing i about living here. This would be a great place to live if it wasn't for the constant sound and smell of motors.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by cmrdporcupine on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @08:28AM (#15960019)
Oh hell, I live rural, and it's just as bad. Constant industrial type noises from neighbour's skid steers, trucks, tractors, snowmobiles, quads, and dirt bikes.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by abecedarius on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @12:41PM (#15962025)
Amen. I’m hard of hearing, and traffic noise makes conversation impossible practically anywhere outside in any city. The idea that electric cars aren’t loud enough infuriates me.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by cmrdporcupine on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @08:27AM (#15960014)
I bought a couple 1980s Saab 900 turbos to restore. After driving my Volt for months just the act of turning a key and hearing an engine roar feels anachronistic, very retro.

I think a small number of ICE cars will stick around as a kind of hobby classic experience. A small minority of people will want the experience of having dinosaur juice explode in front of their feet just like some people like to use Super 8 cameras.

Still, the ICE backup on my Volt has been kind of handy and pleasant to have when it dropped below -10C here last week...

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by cr0sh on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @12:19PM (#15961785)
Until there's a real breakthrough in battery technology, where you'll always likely see ICE being used will be the off-road community.

There is just no battery technology that will allow you run for more than 50-60 miles on a charge, especially when you have a lifted vehicle on 35+" off-road tires, in dirt, rocks, mountainous terrain (with water, snow, ice, mud, you name it).

There won't be charging stations out there, either. Heck, if you aren't trailering your rig to the trail, it's usually much more than 50 miles just to get to the start of the fun.

The thing is, though, if the battery tech were there, I'm sure that a chunk of the off-road community would be on top of it, given the advantages of electric drivetrains and such. But the batteries have to get a lot better than they are currently in today's electric cars; when we see cars able to go 500+ miles on a charge, and to be able to be recharged in under 10 minutes - that's about when off-roaders will jump on it en-masse.

Plus - there has to be ways to recharge out "in the bush" - and solar panels won't cover it (except in a dire emergency I suppose - recharging for days); off-roaders typically carry several gallons of extra fuel with them (jerry cans or otherwise) - for emergency use for whatever reason.

I'm not suggesting that electric cars won't be a thing for the masses because of off-road needs; just that off-road needs won't allow for electrics any time soon, unless there is a breakthrough in battery tech. Until then, it will be ICE - or at best, hybrid technology.

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @09:22AM (#15960343)
> Imagine people doing gas-punk cosplay in a couple of decades.

The Mad Max look is already a thing. See also: Mad Max.

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by _greim_ on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @12:31PM (#15961915)
Wow, gaspunk is the perfect term for it. TIL.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by mac01021 on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @06:18AM (#15959359)
> Imagine people doing gas-punk cosplay in a couple of decades.

Like some of those "Mad Max" movies?

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by Tade0 on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @06:41AM (#15959448)
Dieselpunk enjoys a pretty substantial following, but then again it's emulating a different era.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by squarefoot on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:06AM (#15958797)
"I'll probably feel slightly nostalgic about the sound and smell of fuel-burning cars someday"

I don't know about the smell, but once people realize how dangerous is a car you can't hear coming, they will start adding some sound, and what's better than a traditional car sound? The sound will be easily faked using samples from well known engines played according to the current speed by transducers under the car. There will be probably a market for such addons and traditional auto makers could even patent their sound once they realize there is a market for their recordings. Allowing paid download in realtime of "today's hottest car sound" in seconds when you start the car in the morning could become a business, so that news like someone arrested for pirating the sound of a 911 Carrera could even become the norm one day:)

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by Doxin on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:09AM (#15958821)
Modern gas car engines are already pretty much inaudible over tire noise at slowish speeds. Electric cars don't make any less tire noise. People will manage without artificially adding sounds to electric vehicles.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by testestx on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:45AM (#15959000)
Car sounds are important for small children and animals in the street though.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @09:25AM (#15960356)
At speeds below tire noise, drivers should be very careful about those anyway. Plus modern cars have collision detection hard- and software too. Do electric cars have better braking performance?
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by Doxin on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @06:15AM (#15959349)
And as I've stated at those speeds tire noise is dominating the overal sound for most cars already.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by ju-st on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @06:02AM (#15959317)
That's why many/most EVs have loudspeakers which make "electric car noises" below 20-30kmph. Above that the tire noise becomes dominant and there is no noise level difference between EV and ICE.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by draugadrotten on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:28AM (#15958918)
> once people realize how dangerous is a car you can't hear coming, they will start adding some sound

Already there... I love this UFO sound from 2010: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motoringvideo/8015988/El...

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by KozmoNau7 on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @05:58AM (#15959305)
> once people realize how dangerous is a car you can't hear coming

Modern cars are already very quiet at low speeds, what you're actually hearing at higher speeds is tire noise and (to a lesser degree) wind noise.

Several solutions present themselves. Firstly, people should learn to use their eyes, dammit. Secondly, a lot of electric cars have subtle noisemakers when driving at low speeds.

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by cmrdporcupine on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @08:31AM (#15960038)
All EVs actually are currently required to have a noise added, unfortunately. My Volt makes a weird whirring that you can't hear inside the cabin, but can outside. The Leaf has an odd noise, and even has a backup 'beep beep' like you'd normally hear on tractors or bobcats, etc (tho quieter).
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by squarefoot on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @02:33PM (#15963363)
Good, didn't know that. Time to dust off that old analog synthesizer and make some modern car sounds!
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by chrisper on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:08AM (#15958814)
>continuous, smooth acceleration becomes the norm,

This was achieved with CVT (Continous Variable Transmission). I did not like to drive one, but it already exists.

Also I currently have a car with 7 gear automatic transmission and the acceleration is pretty smooth.

>lurchy, awkward automatic transmissions fade into distant memory.

Again, newer automatic transmission aren't bad anymore.

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by cmrdporcupine on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @08:30AM (#15960027)
CVT or many-gear auto transmission is nothing like the experience of direct drive EV.

CVTs are mostly gutless because gas engines are gutless except at a very narrow RPM band.

The 0-60 times on EVs are impressive. But it's their 0-30 ranges that are absolutely mindblowing. My little boring Volt easily zips past even 'muscle' cars straight off from a red light (of course they easily catch up later, but I don't care)

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by c3833174 on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @08:09AM (#15959905)
> Continous Variable Transmission

If it's anything like the ones installed in most scooters I'd say it's pretty bad.

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by Tade0 on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @06:37AM (#15959436)
I've test driven a Hyundai Ioniq which comes with a six speed automatic transmission and if it's a representative example then I guess it's still not "it" - at least in my view.

There's a level of smoothness and instant response that I haven't seen in cars which are not directly propelled by an electric motor.

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by chrisper on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @07:16AM (#15959598)
6 is not enough. You need to test drive a BMW 7 or 8 gear transmission.

But I have never driven an electric car, so I can only compare with other automatic cars.

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by IndrekR on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:14AM (#15958851)
I drive a hybrid with CVT. After getting used to its smoothness driving with a "normal gearbox" feels really awkward.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by twothamendment on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @03:04PM (#15963705)
I have a CVT in a Subaru and they decided to make it feel like a "normal" car by pretending to shift. I wish I could disable that. At lower RPMs it doesn't play that game.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by kozak on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @07:00AM (#15959526)
Electronic e-CVT (that hybrids like the Prius have) and mechanic push-belt CVT (non-hybrid) are completely different things mechanically.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by IndrekR on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @07:04AM (#15959550)
Honda hybrids have mechanical CVT. Except the new Accord, which has no gearbox and uses electric drivetrain for slow speeds and direct engine coupling for highway.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by gadders on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:00AM (#15958771)
I wonder if there will need to be a replacement noise given to electric cars for safety reasons. Will they all have to make a fake broom-broom noise, or will some other noise be chosen? Maybe they'll be silent until they detect pedestrians or in built-up areas.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by PeterisP on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @05:33AM (#15959223)
IIRC many places already have a legal requirement for replacement noise for safety reasons, usually the criteria is that it must be active below a certain speed.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by gerbilly on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @08:58AM (#15960208)
UGH.

I can't tell you much about the future, but I will make one prediction.

In the future, everything will be constantly beeping.

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by gadders on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @11:29AM (#15961311)
I was trying to think of a noise that could replace broom-broom that would be less annoying but non-natural but couldn't think of one.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by skookumchuck on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:33AM (#15958952)
Nobody cares about the sound of auto transes. But a 4-on-the-floor V8, that's another matter entirely. See the movie Bullitt for proof.

I'll get an electric car like everyone else. But I dream about having a '68 Mustang :-)

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by kasey_junk on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:37AM (#15958970)
But performance cars are already using electronic sound generation in gas cars. Just do that for electrics too.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by skookumchuck on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:56AM (#15959056)
> But performance cars are already using electronic sound generation in gas cars.

Not one I'd buy :-)

Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by kasey_junk on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @08:48AM (#15969404)
I’d take an M5...
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @09:26AM (#15960359)
A movie may not be an accurate representation of reality. But, point taken.
Re:What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the W... by skookumchuck on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @09:24PM (#15966502)
I've driven enough of those cars to know that movie was pretty accurate in how the cars sounded and drove. Such depictions are sadly extremely rare.