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Re:Update: Looking Glass Add-On by gfodor on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @02:01AM (#15958324)
I fully understand and empathize with the reaction that has happened and now that Mozilla (my employer) has a statement apologizing and committing to a public post-mortem (which I fully support) to the folks who are raising issues with the timing and sequence of events leading up to the response itself since Friday (I won't comment on the incident itself, since that's the job of the post-mortem) I wanted to mention one thing that may help add some human perspective:

Mozilla is a distributed organization and was on the last day of its in-person, week-long, bi-yearly all-hands meeting in Austin on Friday when this started. At the time, and through large parts of Saturday, many Mozillians were in last-minute meetings, airports, in the air, or on the road, and were all concluding a week's worth of meetings where everyone was getting face time with collaborators and hashing out in person what we're doing for the next 6 months.

I was not involved, but you can imagine that when trying to decide what to do in response to something like this that many people need to coordinate. So it was a bit of a perfect storm of having tired humans, many of whom were in and out of internet access, etc.

edit: I fully understand the frustrated replies -- as I mentioned I personally feel that the reaction by the community to what happened was justified -- I wrote this not to comment on what happened (as noted in the post, Mozilla has publicly committed to a post-mortem) but wanted to provide this info about this unfolding when a lot of people were traveling, etc. I was happy and thankful to see this posted today and our rollback of the add-on over the weekend and hope that the follow-ups planned help us learn and move forward in a way that the community supports.

Re:Update: Looking Glass Add-On by blub on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @02:48AM (#15958489)
Maybe Mozilla needs to part ways with the people that are pushing for marketing and advertising stunts like this or cliqz and put in charge people that care about open source, privacy and the open web and are also willing to fight for them.

Then it wouldn't matter that everyone was in an airplane, because stupid proposals wouldn't be accepted in the first place.

It would also be nice if the CEO or CTO would chime in, having an official reply by marketing makes it look like marketing is calling the shots.

Re:Update: Looking Glass Add-On by bugmen0t on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @03:56AM (#15958752)
The criticism that is taken serious the least is the uninformed.

1) this was not an ad 2) Cliqz is not an advertising stunt. If there's ever a way to dismantle search engines monopolies it has to have support from a browser.

Re:Update: Looking Glass Add-On by a012 on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:04AM (#15958784)
> 1) this was not an ad 2) Cliqz is not an advertising stunt

So what is it exactly? It's neither for security nor enhancement purpose.

Re:Update: Looking Glass Add-On by simias on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:32AM (#15958946)
I think this is a big fuck-up by Mozilla but I agree that some of the reactions are a bit over-emphatic. Actually I hope that this big backlash means that Mozilla is less likely than others to try something like that in the future. I personally don't plan on changing web browser and I hope Moz won't suffer too much for this mistake (if only because I love Rust).

That being said your reply and others before make me a tad uneasy because you seem to say that it's possible for a small team of, I guess, mostly marketing people can sneak an extension into a Firefox release "under the radar". Are you telling me that if I have some access to the Mozilla repos I can wait for one of this "bi-yearly" meetings and get questionable changes into the next release? A web browser is a critical piece of software, you shouldn't be able to push a novelty extension (regardless of intent) willy-nilly.

I think adding a new default extension in Firefox should go through tons of scrutiny and code review. And if that was the case I can't imagine that nobody would've raised a big red flag along the way saying "wait guys, are we sure we really want to do this?"

Re:Update: Looking Glass Add-On by gfodor on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @07:06AM (#15959558)
No I wasn't saying that at all, and wasn't commenting on anything having to do with the roll out of the change, etc.

Also the stated goal from here by the folks working on remediations for the post mortem is this can't happen again so hopefully what is shared at that time will help alleviate concerns.

Re:Update: Looking Glass Add-On by notatoad on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @02:36AM (#15958437)
>you can imagine that when trying to decide what to do in response to something like this that many people need to have their feedback taken into account before any statements are made or actions taken.

If only such care was put into deciding whether or not to ship adware in your browser, maybe you guys wouldn't have this problem.

Re:Update: Looking Glass Add-On by igravious on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @05:10AM (#15959128)
"perfect storm" is an overused cliché that needs to die. It suggests a confluence of extreme events that when occurring singly wouldn't do (much) damage but when occurring collectively overwhelm you by amplifying the overall severity.

If you have bi-yearly meetups. This is not unforeseen. In fact, it's quite predictable.

Lots of orgs have a no-realeases-before-the-weekend policy because stuff that happens Friday doesn't get fixed until Monday.

Re:Update: Looking Glass Add-On by justinjlynn on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @02:21AM (#15958391)
From Mr. Robot's own Whiterose: There are no coincidences.

Or rather, from my perspective, of course there are coincidences; it's just that I don't trust them.

... and I need to be able to trust my tools.

Re:Update: Looking Glass Add-On by qualitytime on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @05:14AM (#15959137)
"and were all concluding a week's worth of meetings where everyone was getting face time with collaborators and hashing out in person what we're doing for the next 6 months."

Yeah, maybe you should concentrate on the week ahead.

Mozilla is 10% share (and going down) on desktop, near 0% on mobile/tablet.

We must have an alternative to Google, Microsoft and Apple.

All the heads who were responsible for this gaff should be let go and go to Google/Microsoft/Apple, they will do well there with like minded suits.

Re:Update: Looking Glass Add-On by x0x0 on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:08AM (#15958815)
In this postmortem, will it be shared who has sign-off (at minimum, post incident) on pushing non-core browser code into the deployed browser?
Re:Update: Looking Glass Add-On by OnlyRepliesToBS on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @02:44AM (#15958469)
There's no goddamned reason why -anything- 'Mr. Robot' should be in the browser.

None.

And choosing to release this before the weekend is.. well, even worse.. because it shows YET ANOTHER PROBLEM: Terrible QC/User Feedback mechanisms.

But hey, "We're Sorry".