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Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by sillysaurus3 on Monday December 18, 2017 @10:52AM (#15952417)
I'm interested in collecting strategies for destroying bitcoin. Would anyone like to brainstorm?

If the resources of all governments combined were brought to bear on the problem of demolishing BTC, what would be a way to accomplish that?

Making it illegal won't work. Neither will buying it – that will just raise the price. 51% attacks aren't effective because all they can do is double-spend coins, not arbitrarily reassign wealth.

Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by wyldfire on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:19AM (#15952679)
It's virtually indestructible. But global prohibition would limit its utility and likely cascade to diminished investment in mining.

But it will likely never go away until/unless you could find an unfixable flaw. For example, a flaw in the hashing algorithm that permits you to double-spend. Unfortunately there's effectively an enormous bounty on that particular defect that no one has yet claimed. If someone did, another coin with another hashing algorithm would take bitcoin's place.

More importantly -- what is your motivation? Let's please enumerate the evils going on in the world and rank bitcoin appropriately. It's not worth your time.

If you are really in a huff over the energy consumption I think your consternation is poorly focused. Again, let's rank our concerns here. In any case, the best way to "destroy" proof-of-work coins is to invest and promote coins that are similarly effective without proof-of-work. e.g. proof-of-stake coins like Raiblocks.

Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by empath75 on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:25AM (#15952742)
If china decided to shut down the mining operations, that would have a massive impact on the block chain.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by wyldfire on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:31AM (#15952804)
You're mistaken. The difficulty would re-calibrate and it's business as usual.

However, if China or some other government compelled miners to sign invalid transactions, this would have a big impact. This is a weakness of proof-of-work secured coins (note that they also have many strengths that proof-of-stake coins lack).

EDIT: I was unclear what I meant by "this is a weakness of PoW" -- the energy signature of concentrated mining operations make them easy for governments to find.

Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by option_greek on Monday December 18, 2017 @12:23PM (#15953307)
I don't think a transaction would just become valid if a miner (who mined a block) signs it. Each participating node will independently verify the chain for signatures of transactions before it accepts the latest block. So a miner who mines a block with invalid block will just waste his efforts on it. The chain length is used a proxy to find out a valid chain only when two competing chains have valid blocks throughout but have different lengths.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by empath75 on Monday December 18, 2017 @12:59PM (#15953645)
Depends on how much the hashrate changed: http://bitcoinandtheblockchain.blogspot.com/2017/08/chain-de...
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by wyldfire on Monday December 18, 2017 @01:13PM (#15953773)
You are correct, this seems like a defect that should be addressed.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by jes5199 on Monday December 18, 2017 @01:18PM (#15953830)
it depends on what you mean by "invalid transactions". If you mine a block that doesn't follow the rules, the rest of the network will just ignore it, and so you've wasted your computation.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by lawn on Monday December 18, 2017 @02:55PM (#15954858)
Slowly infiltrate the development team and sabotage the progress from within. Utilize divide and conquer and fracture the community by controlling social media with strong censorship and an army of trolls. Sabotage the development by inserting poison pills, stalling any progress and develop vaporware.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by ad_hominem on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:34AM (#15952847)
* Crack ECDSA and forge transactions (slowly/slyly enough to make a hard fork fix infeasible)

* Create exchange(s), get users, then implode them ("oops, bad code / we got hacked") (bonus: free $ for black ops)

* Create competing coins, either crappy ones just to suck away mindshare or legit one(s) backed by the gov't that grants some stability through gov't capability. Or heck just designed well enough that people want to actually use it for spending.

Or just go the more traditional / direct route and create regulations or make it outright illegal, and shut down exchanges and throw people in jail (probably the most effective)

Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by CoryG89 on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:14AM (#15952629)
You go after the exchanges. Don't make BTC illegal. Make it illegal to trade it for fiat currency or vice-versa.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by diggan on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:48AM (#15952978)
When forex trading becomes illegal for the regular Joe, those trades just goes out on the street instead. See USD/Peso situation in Argentina for an example.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by UncleMeat on Monday December 18, 2017 @12:09PM (#15953161)
Friction matters. Especially for something that relies on a network effect. Banning transactions might not prevent all transactions, but it would prevent many of them.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by raducu on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:03AM (#15952538)
Just let it unregulated, it will destroy itself through all of the tried and tested methods that brought said regulations in the first place.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by sillysaurus3 on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:04AM (#15952551)
It's worth worrying that it won't. There's no upper bound on the price, and everyone who thought BTC wouldn't continue growing exponentially was wrong.

BTC is gearing up to be the biggest financial disaster in history, and it's better to start planning for it now.

Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by atentaten on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:38AM (#15952878)
>BTC is gearing up to be the biggest financial disaster in history, and it's better to start planning for it now.

I can see how one can arrive at this sentiment based on how quickly the price has increased, but I wonder how bad it would really be since the vast majority of Bitcoin investment is not debt based. Additionally most people I've talked to on the matter, only invest what they are willing to lose.

Now, if a significant amount of investors get in via margin and other debt-based approaches, then that could be problematic. BTC have seen huge drops in value in the past, how individuals new to the space react is unknown.

Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by JumpCrisscross on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:38AM (#15952881)
> BTC is gearing up to be the biggest financial disaster in history

Lots of value evaporating doesn't necessarily make for a disaster. It only does that when it interacts with the larger financial universe in unexpected ways. In countries where people will start missing their mortgage payments as a result of Bitcoin losses, yes, there are systemic risks. In the United States, we're still far from that point.

Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by sillysaurus3 on Monday December 18, 2017 @12:31PM (#15953388)
Another concern is that Satoshi probably passed his coins to his heirs. Whoever they are, they could emerge a de-facto world power since they alone control ~5% of wealth.

And there's no way for society to decide that should change. They can act as evil as they want with no fear of losing their coins.

Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by dpc_pw on Monday December 18, 2017 @02:33PM (#15954645)
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by mancerayder on Monday December 18, 2017 @06:27PM (#15956405)
The upper bound is how much capital can be deployed to pump it up.

It's one thing if hedge funds are pouring in, another if housewives in Japan (if the press stories are to be believed), but at the end of the day there's a finite amount of capital that will be pumped into it, as capital wants to go to other investments, too.

Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by hndamien on Monday December 18, 2017 @07:21PM (#15956733)
All that will happen is that the growth rate will slow down. When that happens, the opportunity for people to spend on investments that offer a greater return on investment will become attractive to holders.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by IamNotAtWork on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:14AM (#15952633)
Are you just sad that you didn't buy in a year ago? Don't worry, me too. :) Heck, my brother in law who is a lawyer and don't know anything about blockchain bought some and my niece's college education is paid for now. LOL.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by deadmetheny on Monday December 18, 2017 @12:02PM (#15953099)
Ah yes, the "you're just jealous" argument, champion to people who are too blind to realize that BTC has serious downsides. Look man, a massive speculative bubble popping is gonna have huge repercussions to a non-trivial number of average non-techie people who read an article about how some nerd got rich on digital Beanie Babies and threw their life's savings at it. Those are the people who are gonna get fucked, not the people over at Bitcoin Idiots, LLC who can afford to lose some fun money betting on Internet bucks.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by mrlinx on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:17AM (#15952663)
You should check his comment history, its worth reading.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by pyvpx on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:19AM (#15952678)
has he successfully converted his bitcoin into "fiat" currency? or does the college accept and denominate tuition in BTC?
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by pbrb on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:45AM (#15952952)
It's pretty easy to do - sell for fiat on any exchange that trades in it, and deposit fiat to your linked bank account. Unless you're unloading millions, then you're better off doing an auction.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by wakkaflokka on Monday December 18, 2017 @12:05PM (#15953126)
Serious question - is there any doubt that one can successfully convert BTC to fiat? I've done it many times on the major exchanges (Gemini & Coinbase) with absolutely no problem.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by pyvpx on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:09AM (#15958818)
because past $100K it becomes difficult rising to impossible from every person I've directly spoken to
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by mancerayder on Monday December 18, 2017 @06:25PM (#15956392)
DDOS some of the biggest miners while simultaneously deploying a large force of compute power to exceed the 51%, even for a few minutes?

This is my best guess, and I'm legitimately curious if it's a believable threat.

Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by akvadrako on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:41AM (#15958986)
This would be difficult because the hash rate doesn't change dynamically every block, so you'd need to make up all the hash power of the DDOS'ed miners.

But you could just do the DDOS, then blocks would stop being confirmed and the value would plummet.

Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by gnopgnip on Monday December 18, 2017 @03:25PM (#15955140)
There is a substantial demand for money laundering and purchasing things like drugs that traditional payment processors will not allow. Bitcoin works for this now. Another crypto currency could replace bitcoin, and destroy the value. If the value goes down enough, miners will switch currencies and this could leave bitcoin as unusuable with a frisbee on roof attack. To destroy crypto currencies in general you would need to solve the underlying issues and reduce demand or block money laundering and payments for illegal goods.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by Nursie on Monday December 18, 2017 @01:42PM (#15954077)
Making it illegal would have a huge impact on mainstream uptake. If it were made illegal across the US and Canada, Europe and SE Asia, that could effectively kill it for most people.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by makomk on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:42AM (#15952922)
51% attacks can also censor transactions, ensuring that they never confirm and that any block which attempts to do so is rewritten out of history.
Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by runeks on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:32AM (#15952820)
> 51% attacks aren't effective because all they can do is double-spend coins, not arbitrarily reassign wealth.

The only problem Bitcoin solves is double spending. Without this ability it’s worthless.

Re:Bitcoin Takes Bigger Wall Street Stage with Smooth CME Debut by akvadrako on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @04:45AM (#15958997)
This is completely true. A blockchain that didn't prevent double spending could be both very efficient and support hidden transactions without any tricky math.