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Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by knowaveragejoe on Monday December 11, 2017 @04:33PM (#15900677)
Twitch already has a flagging system for "mature" content, and they ban anything with actual nudity pretty aggressively. It sounds like this is actually a call to police the use of sex appeal by streamers, which seems like a difficult thing to judge in general and I'm not sure how they could actually achieve such a thing.
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by jchw on Monday December 11, 2017 @05:28PM (#15901191)
>and they ban anything with actual nudity pretty aggressively.

Framing it as if they only ban aggressively for actual nudity is unfair. They ban aggressively on all kinds of fronts, including very subjective criteria, they just do it very inconsistently.

For all I care, they can do whatever they want. But I do feel like they are hard to take seriously until they decide to apply their rules equally. They do not. They have egregiously played favorites in a way that is surprising for such a big and respected entity as Twitch.

The thing that sucks is, the irresponsible ways that Twitch and YouTube behave hurts everyone, because they try to sell ads on content they know advertisers wouldn't like, and when advertisers wise up they overreact and become adverse to supporting small content creators. They would rather have "safe," big content creators instead, where they can feel like they're getting their money's worth.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by r00fus on Monday December 11, 2017 @07:00PM (#15901949)
> But I do feel like they are hard to take seriously until they decide to apply their rules equally. They do not.

Any examples that can help me understand?

Perhaps the advertising angle goes hand in hand with the above inequality. Ads are essentially buying real-estate in your brain. One way is to have exclusives (i.e., buying out the room), another is Yelp-style (pay-to-play).

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by sAvi0r on Monday December 11, 2017 @11:30PM (#15903008)
Debate with Pink Sparkles - Twitch Boobie Streamers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7ZbIpT2PXg (24:00)

Twitch Booby Streamers - A Crisis of Culture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySypTRw8AvY (50:06)

If you've got the time, the above two videos are a great rundown of the current 'sexual streaming' situation on twitch by one of the first ever professional streamers. He can be a bit edgy at times, and there's swearing in the video if that's not your thing, but he has a solid, well thought-out opinion when it comes to most things. The whole situation is a mess, with crazy misogynist incel types on one side and Twitch on the other just sort of ignoring complaints and being complicit in the mass harassment of some of the women on their platform.

If you want some examples of their inconsistent application of the rules, you could check out many of the things LegendaryLea was given short temporary bans for, then compare it to e.g. the stream IamSSunny was permanently banned for, which was later arbitrarily reduced to a temporary ban - driving home just how inconsistent they are with their own rules. Mildly NSFW though, so I won't post any direct examples here.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by cookiecaper on Monday December 11, 2017 @07:20PM (#15902047)
>when advertisers wise up they overreact and become adverse to supporting small content creators.

A cynic may interpret that as the desired outcome. From a business perspective, independent YouTubers don't have much to offer the platform.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by paxy on Monday December 11, 2017 @11:25PM (#15902994)
It is impossible to consistently apply a policy as subjective as sexual/mature content. Way bigger platforms than them have tried and routinely fail at it. You can keep trying to define what is or isn't acceptable, and people will keep coming up with more ambiguous content. The best anyone can do in this situation is look at user reports and make a judgement call.
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by NathanKP on Monday December 11, 2017 @04:51PM (#15900836)
Yeah I don't really understand who is complaining. You have to go pretty out of your way to find these "sexual streamers" and they have pretty low viewer count to be honest.

If you stick to browsing Twitch by game you almost never see them, and the top game streams have 10k-20k viewers at all times. You have to specifically go to the IRL section of Twitch to find camgirl style streams, and most of these "sexual streamers" have under 1k viewers. It's hardly a mainstream part of Twitch, and is something you have to specifically hunt down.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by ht85 on Monday December 11, 2017 @05:24PM (#15901136)
> If you stick to browsing Twitch by game you almost never see them

I don't have a strong opinion of what should or shouldn't be allowed, but that statement is false.

For example, if you browse League of Legends in the evening, very often a couple of the top 24 thumbnails are girl streamers in sexy outfits who are not really focused on playing, and do provocative things when people sub / donate.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by NathanKP on Monday December 11, 2017 @06:08PM (#15901589)
Sure it's not that sex appeal focused streamers are never in the game categories but it is much rarer than it used to be. The IRL category has helped by moving the majority of all these streamers to one place where you can go watch them if that's your thing.

All that is needed is for Twitch mods to be a bit more active in retagging such streams to IRL instead of the game category. In general I think that they are doing a great job. You used to see a lot more League of Legends streams where a female host dressed in a revealing outfit had her cam much larger than the gameplay and it was clearly more focused on sex appeal than gameplay, but that type of stream is now mostly cordoned off in IRL.

A simple rule like "streamer camera can only take up X% of the screen, and gameplay must take up at least Y% of the screen" otherwise it gets retagged as an IRL stream solves the issue.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by Bishonen88 on Monday December 11, 2017 @05:20PM (#15901097)
Out of your way, you say? Check out the irl section,please. More often than not you’ll find a female streaming with her tits out in top10. Quite often there’s 2 or 3 in top 10. The content they provide is just sitting around and look in the camera waiting for donations and having their breasts up in the camera. Personally, I don’t care. But it’s not like those type of streamers are hard to find.
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by NathanKP on Monday December 11, 2017 @05:30PM (#15901211)
That's my point though. These sex appeal focused streams are almost all in the IRL section, not the top games section. You have to specifically go to the IRL section to find them, aka you have to go out of your way to get there.

Compare the game focused sections like PUBG, or League of Legends, or World of Warcraft. These sections of the site are clearly the dominant and original viewing categories on Twitch from the beginning. If you just want to watch a game then you can go to these sections and do that.

On the other hand if you want to watch for the streamer then the IRL section is there to cater to whatever type of streamer you want to watch, including streamers who have followers based on sex appeal, not game finesse.

It feels like manufactured outrage to me if you are going to the IRL section and complaining about the contents. Because the IRL section isn't game focused in the first place. It is personality focused, and sexual appeal is going to be part of it. You also have streams of buff shirtless guys working out in the gym on IRL, just like you have streams of women in tight clothing. If you go the IRL section and start complaining about it not being game focused that's just silly.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by _phaq on Monday December 11, 2017 @08:27PM (#15902366)
> It is personality focused, and sexual appeal is going to be part of it.

Well, exactly that is debateable. Sexual appeal is often coupled with a completely flat or acted personality. And if they have somewhat of a personality, then usually the stream is constantly interrupted by them reading out donations or whatnot.

And this discussion is not just about the rest of Twitch. Some people would actually like to use the IRL section to find streamers whose personality they like. Having the top-viewed streams there being focused on sexual appeal generally makes it harder to find actual personality streamers. It also means that actual personality streamers often avoid IRL.

But then they don't avoid it completely either. Some artists now stream in IRL instead of Creative. The section Music has been pretty much dead since the introduction of IRL, because people making music now pretty much either choose between Creative or IRL, leaving Music for completely personality-devoid streams of pre-recorded music.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by ktta on Monday December 11, 2017 @05:16PM (#15901049)
I think the problem is about brand image. All it takes is one person pointing out to an advertiser their ad beside these streamers.

Of course, there's the other image problem with gaming competitions etc. who will hesitate a bit if Twitch was conducive to this behavior.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by heartbreak on Monday December 11, 2017 @07:12PM (#15902006)
Because we all know advertising and scantily clad women do not mix.

With less snark, advertising as an industry is famous for “sex sells”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_in_advertising

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by ktta on Monday December 11, 2017 @08:29PM (#15902372)
Well sure sex is a great way to sell products, but for Twitch it will be terrible. They are selling a brand and a platform. That's all they have, because the tech is not too hard to replicate. That, and existing users, which I'll get to now.

Twitch already has a reputation with gamers/streamers of becoming something close to a camsite slowly(while it seems hyperbolic, sentiments of most of people there usually are too), contrary to what it was meant to be - a purely game streaming centered site. Apart from infuriating other usual steamers on the site who will lose viewers to the 'sexual content' steamers (and will result in general discontentment). These streamers will most likely leave to YouTube Gaming or something else. If that doesn't happen, there are long term ramifications to consider.

Say Twitch accepts that section of streamers and continues with MATURE AUDIENCE ONLY labels etc. Now obviously those videos won't be monetized so they are more of an expense now. Then, if they become a significant part of the website, they'll get questions from upper management. Despite silicon valley considering itself 'progressive', none of them will be okay with this (see patreon).

Then comes the next step: Gaming competitions and other engagements. If a gaming competition accepts Twitch as a sponsor, people will see it as if the events agree with that part of Twitch, which is a no-no because those events have kids' parents to consider (remember, you still can't swear in most similar events and hosts get fined if they do).

While this may seem like a weak argument, a weak enough link to sex industry is enough for investors to pull out. That's because they fear the occasional articles from The Daily Beast and The New Yorker about the effects of Twitch on teenagers' sexuality and the world in general. Now say one of those lead to someone from the NYT or Bloomberg looking for a story, you've got investors making calls who read a lengthy piece about how Twitch is preying on adolescent kids.

Do you think this is too outlandish? Look at YouTube's 'weird videos aimed at kids' problem and how many people it is hiring and time it is investing to solve that problem. Twitch is more at risk since it is a newer brand still at the 'first impression' stage for many. And boy you don't want to get that wrong.

Ask parents if they are okay with letting their kids have (paid!) membership on Twich after that news gets out. Parents are a huge effect on revenue of services their kids use.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by tomc1985 on Monday December 11, 2017 @05:40PM (#15901330)
Watching the world drift further and further towards moral prudery is so disheartening, especially when so much social progress was made on this front during the 60s and 70s. Society is so cyclical :/
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by lawnchair_larry on Monday December 11, 2017 @08:31PM (#15902380)
I'm not sure where you got the ideal that moral prudery is involved here, but it has nothing to do with that. The people who want "twitch girls" off the site do not have any objections to cam girls. The problem is that they're hijacking a service that was built for and by a specific community.

Twitch has a large number of sex workers who are just using it as a conduit to find "customers" and are not contributing to the community, but detracting from it. There are other sites dedicated to that.

This is especially problematic for female streamers who are community members and get constantly harassed with "tits or gtfo" or worse. They struggle to be taken seriously as gamers due to the cheap antics and "accidental wardrobe malfunctions" employed by the other women on the site, and are punished for it in terms of number of viewers.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by sametmax on Tuesday December 12, 2017 @04:55AM (#15904255)
Now as a payback we should start video game streaming on sexy cam websites !
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by tomc1985 on Monday December 11, 2017 @09:21PM (#15902567)
My age group (and younger) seems to be trending towards a more conservative-yet-inclusive set of morals. This new stink about camgirl streamers is just one facet of something wider and more encompassing. Or maybe I'm just pissed that people are growing up and favoring more family-friendly stuff.
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by lawnchair_larry on Monday December 11, 2017 @10:23PM (#15902772)
No, again, it has nothing to do with morals. There are many sites for sex workers, and rest assured that many in the twitch community who would prefer that they not hijack twitch also visit those other sites.
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by tomc1985 on Monday December 11, 2017 @11:54PM (#15903089)
It's sequestered off into "IRL" which is buried amongst other titles of games. Earlier today, among the dozens of front-page feeds of people doing random things there were maybe three, now I see one (and its one of the same people as before). So unless the demographics of streamers have shifted in the past couple of days since this popped up on reddit, it's hard to consider it a takeover?

Reiterating OP, the momentum of this thing looks more like -- whatever it was before -- it is becoming or has become an generalized attack on sex appeal in a realm where AO/R/18+-rated content is still frequently a kiss-of-death, if not something needlessly danced around. I get that some gamers may not want this kind of thing but, c'mon, let people be people. If it's really bothersome then leave the site and maybe management will make a change after enough follow suit. It's already buried in a ghetto of other banners under "Browse" and I didn't see and there doesn't seem to be any other way to get to it besides search.

Also the twitch community should really evaluate it's complaints about outsiders given that it exists in the husk of justin.tv's corpse.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by hackinthebochs on Monday December 11, 2017 @06:39PM (#15901819)
Agreed. I feel like I don't recognize liberalism in the kinds of things that people advocate for these days.
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by jhanschoo on Monday December 11, 2017 @07:34PM (#15902128)
I actually don't associate this with liberalism. To me this seems an extension of the "real gamers" phenomenon, where certain gamers think that gaming and streaming should correspond to some good-at-the-game, purely-about-the-game ideal, which the sex appeal streams clearly do not fall into.
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by vultour on Monday December 11, 2017 @06:05PM (#15901560)
You mean how they hand out 24 hour bans to women for "accidentaly" showing genitals, meanwhile other streamers are getting permanently banned left and right for much smaller infractions?
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by Waterluvian on Monday December 11, 2017 @04:44PM (#15900772)
Yeah it gets into the hyper subjective realm of what is acceptable or not. If I sexually identify as a CAS aircraft, will they ban DCS A-10 Simulator as sexual content?

On the other hand, they're a company so they're perfectly allowed to decide where they draw the line and enforce that.

I just hope we don't accidentally cause a regression with women in gaming by accidentally enforcing a dress code that mostly impacts women.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by pjc50 on Monday December 11, 2017 @05:41PM (#15901340)
> I just hope we don't accidentally cause a regression with women in gaming by accidentally enforcing a dress code that mostly impacts women.

See the recent Naomi Wu controversy.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by ben_w on Monday December 11, 2017 @04:59PM (#15900913)
> If I sexually identify as a CAS aircraft, will they ban DCS A-10 Simulator as sexual content?

I don’t know if this is a joke, but that is a thing that happens.

Given how long I was blind to my own (relatively straightforward) bisexuality, I think the real answer is that people in charge literally cannot conceive of sexuality that far away from their worldview.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by wisty on Monday December 11, 2017 @05:59PM (#15901504)
For a less silly and inflammatory example, how about feet? Because there certainly are foot fetishists out there.
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by unobtaniumstool on Monday December 11, 2017 @06:09PM (#15901594)
That's a pretty classic example really. I know Flickr had some awkward interactions with a foot fetishist community that took up residence there, because they didn't reeeally post anything that violated the terms of service, they were just kind of creepy about it.
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by LinuxBender on Monday December 11, 2017 @07:07PM (#15901979)
There are people sexually aroused by eyes as well.
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by knowaveragejoe on Monday December 11, 2017 @04:49PM (#15900815)
I'm left wondering how they would actually scale any sort of enforcement like that. Look at reports people submit?
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by ryanlol on Monday December 11, 2017 @04:50PM (#15900821)
Yeah, this is just what angry nerds on reddit have been pushing for a while because they’re upset that pretty women are earning a decent living by playing games online.
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by omegaworks on Monday December 11, 2017 @04:35PM (#15900693)
It's probably blowback from American Vandal.
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by ben_jones on Monday December 11, 2017 @05:23PM (#15901133)
Devil's advocate: a small portion of streamers use their sexuality to solicit large donations from individuals who cannot afford such donations. Sure you can't police it, but it kind of underpins the site when every popular game has multiple people using this strategy for personal profit. It's highly visible, everybody knows about it. Shouldn't it at least be talked about?
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by neaanopri on Monday December 11, 2017 @05:27PM (#15901180)
To Devil's Advocate the Devil's Advocate: This isn't a "sexualized streaming" issue, this is an issue of people donating money they don't have or can't afford. Outside of a personally invasive police state, I don't see a way of stopping this beyond some sort of flags for people who donate too much, similar to how gambling addiction is dealt with.
Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by zaroth on Monday December 11, 2017 @06:03PM (#15901540)
> solicit large donations from individuals who cannot afford such donations.

This makes no sense. Either Dad should take back the credit card or adults can make their own decisions. Either way, I can’t see how that would have anything to do with the person streaming the video asking for cash!

I mean, argue that cute girls have it easy getting cash for titilating their viewers. Argue that Twitch isn’t for tits. But arguing that boobs made someone spend money they couldn’t afford is just debasing to men everywhere.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by lotyrin on Monday December 11, 2017 @06:14PM (#15901637)
People don't exist in such clean categories, there is a spectrum on which everyone lies w.r.t. their abilities of self awareness and self control and their knowledge of their present and future situations, and therefore their ability to act within their own best interests. Communities which seek to maximize future outcomes for their members necessarily seek to aid them by limiting harmful actions.

Where the lines are drawn, how the limits are enacted, and whether or not something is harmful is of course a matter of opinion.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by zaroth on Monday December 11, 2017 @09:17PM (#15902549)
Trying to protect someone against their own urges to give someone money over the internet in return for nothing... I mean how suggestible would you have to be? Society and community is not meant to act in loco parentis, unless you have an IQ ~60.

This is not any kind of fraud, or bait and switch. This is, I show you an image and ask you to send me money. No, the world I want to live in presumes a level of self discipline and self responsibility, and offers a freedom of speech which I think is antithetical to the level of thought-police that your idea of community policing would require.

Re:Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming' by anigbrowl on Monday December 11, 2017 @05:57PM (#15901480)
solicit large donations from individuals who cannot afford such donations

How is a donor's financial wellbeing the solicitor's problem? Sexy cam streams may be a total waste of money but at least it's not going to give you cancer as well as a short-term thrill.