Two of my buddies had kids when they were 19-20, when I see one of them his daughter is basically watching youtube videos all the time sitting on the couch.

The other guy does not really let his kids around phones or tablets, they can watch TV, but thats also heavily regulated. But usually when we are around, they hang out with us and work on cars. Its really fun to teach them stuff about cars even if they are only 5 and 6. When we sit and have meals, I try to engage them as much as possible, talk about music, and math.

But yes I agree with you, phones are really killing it. Have you tried deleting apps you like to use? Switch to web apps with difficult logins?

on a side note does anyone else find those youtube videos for kids hella creepy?

Not sure which ones, but my friend's five-year-old girl spends her time watching videos of and older girl showing off her Brand-Name Doll, and all the accessories you can buy for it, and how isn't it just so cute when I put her in THIS accessory, and tune in tomorrow for more accessories you can buy...

That definitely makes me sick.

True, but in the 1970s when I was a kid, I watched a lot of Saturday Morning cartoons which had a lot of toy ads, and my father's comic books had toy ads too. Selling crap to children too young to understand advertising has a long history.

yeah I remember seeing those ads when I was a child as well, however I think that the invasiveness has increased. the children have this "relationship" with people on youtube, where the youtuber addresses the whole audience, but in a way that children might perceive as friendliness, while the intentions may not be so genuine.

At least the older one is being productive and producing content. Hey, there are some silly YouTubers who make real money from just streaming their life (games, fashion, etc).

Arguably, what they’re doing is better than sitting in front of a passive device like a TV. Sure, they could be spending their time more wisely, but the kids need some sort of down time (exactly how much time is for the parents to figure out).

> Arguably, what they’re doing is better than sitting in front of a passive device like a TV.

But the example given was of a child semi-actively watching ads, for hours and hours. Is that better than watching, say, Sesame Street?

> on a side note does anyone else find those youtube videos for kids hella creepy?

Yes, and there was a recent discussion on HN about it, too [0].

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15670109

I've mentioned this before on here, but for me tossing the smart phone and getting a flip phone has utterly changed the dynamic with my children. It has been 3 months, and I am still amazed (although I guess I shouldn't be) that being actually present with them when we interact has seemed to reduce their neediness/anxiety and improved our relationship/bond. If you can, I recommend giving it a try.

I think I need to give this a try. I may have to put my phone in a "dead zone" box or something when I get home so that I can be off and present with them.

I like the idea of turning on a ringtone so I can be reached but also not always surfing youtube/facebook/hacker news/etc. I don't know why but getting my computer out to do something seems a lot more effort and I'm less likely to do it.

I'm going to try this out tonight and go for 2 weeks to see how it goes. I'll re-assess then.

Thanks your comment was the impetuous I needed to figure out a way to do it without getting rid of the smart phone the rest of the day.

Another thing to try is put the phone on a shelf with car keys when you get home, and only pick it up after the kids are in bed. The feeling of "phantom phone" and the desire to check it are real. I totally empathise with you.

I want to do this, but my one hangup is the lack of a decent camera. I know that I probably don’t need to document my kid’s life as much as I do, but I do like being able to share moments with my own parents, who live a ways away. How did you handle this aspect of the change? Do you carry a dslr or point and shoot, or do you just go without (or have flip phone cameras improved a ton since my last one)?

Maybe just commit to removing the most attention-grabbing apps from your phone? Seems like a good way to keep the aspects of your phone that you value while getting rid of the ones that you don't.

Yeah a time schedule or a really long and cumbersome unlock password for social media and web browser would really help. But then you need that recipe for dinner and you think "this is stupid, I'm an adult, I can handle this" and you remove it.

This was my experience - after removing apps / block there would be an initial period where I would stick to it, but eventually would fall back to the same old routine. Changing engrained habits is extremely difficult.

Ya the camera is the biggest issue, and I'll admit I do rely on my wife having her smartphone handy for capturing those unexpected moments. I do carry a small point and shoot (older model from 2009), but I am looking at upgrading it to a newer model. I find that because it isn't always handy, my photos of kids, events, etc. are more purposeful (some would say posed I guess), which depending on your point of view could be a plus.

For me the solution was to make my phone super boring. It's basically a dumbphone with WhatsApp (because where I live WhatsApp == texting). It does have a browser but I can't get to it easily (basically i have to start some other app and trick it into starting a browser). No social networks. No games, etc. Maps is the most interactive app on my phone, by far. All that other stuff is for the computer.

This works well for me (except weird quirks eg I sometimes take my laptop to the toilet). It forces me to consciously choose to "dive in" (because opening a computer takes a bit more time as well as physical space).

Parents are beat. Both my now ex-wife and I had a burnout in the last 2 years. Work demands are higher than ever and our kids were also demanding. /edit The reason we're on our phones is that we're just too damn tired to interact with humans properly.

>Work demands are higher than ever

I suspect you meant this within the context of your own life, but historically that's almost certainly untrue. 50 years ago you likely would've had a job doing much more grueling work in less comfortable conditions. Conversely, your ex-wife would not have had an income producing job at all and after the age of 4-5 would've sent the kid outside for significant portions of the day.

More grueling work, but likely left AT work. No bringing work home with you. Likely less job stress at home as well, though it might be replace by financial stress.

'grueling' is key. Since I don't do any 'real' work I need to go to the gym pretty regularly to keep my mind / body sane.

Do you have any insight on the "after age 4-5"?

My youngest is nearly 2 and can hold his own on a parking field, at a playpark, in a woodland, digging in the garden, etc.. Seems early 20th Century kids would be out there at an earlier age, certainly working class kids.

That's definitely the modern day problem! Can't believe how often you go to playgrounds and a parent is on their phone the entire time. It makes me self conscious every time I need to use my phone for something important, as I don't want to be that parent although I have been in the past. I removed the Facebook app from my phone and that's helped, among removing push notifications, putting it on silent etc... phone addiction is a real problem, as is social media consumption.

My city was 95% of the parents just on phones till this year. Now the vast majority of us parents are actually playing with our kids. Serious kids are the best thing I have ever had in my life and they are a blast. Sometimes they really know how to humble you but it is so worth it. (Dad of 5)

That's really cool!

When you are on a safe playground you don't need to watch your child all the time. I read books at that time.

Oh yeah I'm not really concerned about safety, I'm assuming parents are being responsible in that regard. My concern is social interaction, and parents staring at their phones and not even interacting with other parents. I get not all people like to socialize all the time, and finding alone time to read a book is rare as a young parent... but it's nice to just chat with people and put the phones away. I'm an introvert by nature so I like alone time.

If a parent is reading a book, I totally respect that! You don't see lots of people walking and reading a book everywhere they go, staring at a book to avoid social conversation, or unable to put it down for more than 6 minutes... phones just seem to takeover the brain, like TV but worse.

My 11 month old already sees my iPhone as a threat and goes for it with his teeth whenever he sees me using it. Or he just wants to play with it himself; at anyrate it is very difficult to use my phone around him now.

I think you are making a joke but it is the latter case. He see you using it so he knows it must be important! and his primary tool for figuring out the world is his mouth!

I actually think it might be the former. There's a famous study where parents put on a completely flat face for a few minutes and denied their infants any attention. The babies reacted extremely poorly. I wish I could remember the name of the effect & the study so I could link it but the name totally escapes me

Anyway, point being, they did the same study but with parents using smartphones, and babies reacted in exactly the same fashion (distress)

I have the same problem with my cats.