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Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by robotcookies on Sunday November 19, 2017 @11:57AM (#15734618)
Is Amazon forcing us to install their products even if we don't use it, and crippling our OS if we try to remove it? No. Is Amazon taking control of small companies for their IP and then using it to sue competitors with frivolous lawsuits? (a la sco). Are they suing customers for using competing products? No, I don't think Amazon is doing these things.

That link only really gets into the fact that they have a large market share. That alone does't make them a 90s era Microsoft.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by Spooky23 on Sunday November 19, 2017 @03:06PM (#15735650)
Amazon is far more dangerous than 1990s Microsoft. Amazon is:

- Using third party proxies to avoid accountability for sale of countfeit products, and liability for the same.

- Using its market position and sock puppet partners to replicate and promote knockoff products.

- Using its domination of book market share to bully book publishers into a accepting its terms, and capriciously raising prices and removing pre-order options to those the tow the line. (Hachette)

- Notorious for poor working conditions, for both blue collar and white collar workforces.

I could go on, at length.

Amazon doesn’t force you to use your products, it instead raises the cost of everything you buy by owning the wholesale and distribution channels. Their UPS rates are the price floor. Their predatory tactics allow them to avoid collection of sales and use taxes — pushing them to the consumer. Their wholesale pricing is a price floor in many categories, or shared with WalMart.

Amazon is a monopolist and negative force in the American economy. They exist with their current business practices because the US courts changed their interpretation of what a monopoly is, which is now strictly determined by how corporate actions impact consumer retail prices.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by kumarm on Sunday November 19, 2017 @12:40PM (#15734897)
Amazon Stores doesn't sell competitor products. Try buying Google Home on Amazon. Whats worse? Searching for Google Home returns results for Amazon Echo.

You can find amazon apps on Google PlayStore though.

Amazon is definitely the next Microsoft.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by mseebach on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:29PM (#15735120)
That's definitely stupid and childish behaviour on Amazon's part, and will not help them one bit in winning this argument, but if that's the main piece of evidence that they are "definitely" like Microsoft, then, no, they are nothing like Microsoft was in the 90s.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by Mountain_Skies on Sunday November 19, 2017 @12:57PM (#15734989)
If I'm not mistaken, it was Google who started blocking Amazon's Echo from serving YouTube content on devices with screens, so this type of anti end user behavior isn't exclusive to Amazon.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by MichaelGG on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:49PM (#15735222)
Amazon kicked this off, delisting Chromecast and Apple TVs, and lying about it.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by robbomacrae on Sunday November 19, 2017 @02:00PM (#15735292)
Googles reason was "Amazon’s implementation of YouTube on the Echo Show violates our terms of service, creating a broken user experience."

I don't pretend to know what that broken user experience was.. ads blocked? No auto play next? No subscriber button? But anything along those lines would be a poor deal for YouTube. Im not a fan of either as they both engage in illegal anti-competitive behavior I just feel it isn't one sided in this case.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by simcop2387 on Sunday November 19, 2017 @05:34PM (#15736338)
This started even before the echo and home devices. it started at least as far back as the chromecast and firetv stick. Possibly with devices before that too.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by mikestew on Sunday November 19, 2017 @02:30PM (#15735466)
Amazon Stores doesn't sell competitor products.

Were Amazon like Microsoft, as you claim, Amazon would sell competitor products that have an Amazon product built in, whether you want it or not, and it will be priced into the product.

(Disclaimer: this analogy to the 90s MS falls apart quickly. But unlike 90s MS, I am not yet forced to do business with Amazon if I don't want to.)

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by kazinator on Sunday November 19, 2017 @12:57PM (#15734987)
Or, the next Safeway? Try buying another grocery store's brand of milk at Safeway! The bastards only sell theirs.

No wait, the next BMW! I tried to buy a Toyota and no BMW dealership would sell me one, can you believe it?

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by bubblesorting on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:22PM (#15735090)
- Safeway and BMW don't tout theirselves as, "Earth's biggest selection of books, magazines, music, DVDs, videos, electronics, computers, software, apparel & accessories, shoes, ..." like Amazon does. They don't even claim to be the biggest selection of groceries/autos.

- Safeway and BMW aren't known as "The Everything Store"

- You can buy Toyotas at a BMW dealership. They will be used, but they're there.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by BurningFrog on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:29PM (#15735121)
Do you claim anyone actually has a bigger selection of "books, magazines, music, DVDs, videos, electronics, computers, software, apparel & accessories, shoes, ..."?
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by bubblesorting on Monday November 20, 2017 @10:38PM (#15745337)
Nope. That quote was lifted from Amazon.com meta tags.

If I were to guess at what companines might rival Amazon in having the biggest selection, my top 3 would be: eBay, Alibaba, Rakuten.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by kazinator on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:34PM (#15735156)
Right; so you're bothered by the fact that there are substitutions of x which make true the proposition ∃x:not(sells(Amazon, x)). These are counterexamples to their outrageously false marketing claim ∀x:sells(Amazon, x).

To what extent would you say this eating you alive?

(BTW: that marketing claim comes from the "Everything"; a collection which is "biggest" isn't necessarily exhaustive; just bigger than others.)

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by jtefera on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:55PM (#15735265)
Did you just learn a little bit of logic and feel the urge to parade it everywhere? Heck, it just made your phrase longer, didn't provide anything useful that couldn't be said in plain English and marginalized anyone who doesn't know those symbols.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by kazinator on Sunday November 19, 2017 @02:10PM (#15735348)
Whoosh ...
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by bubblesorting on Monday November 20, 2017 @10:40PM (#15745340)
Not all of us have a strong grasp of logic theory, although we probably would be much better off if we did. Mind dumbing it down for your audience?
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by ultraluminous on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:54PM (#15735254)
So you'd also definitely agree that if you're running an ecommerce (or video streaming, or food delivery, or grocery delivery or anything really) business on AWS, Amazon is in the clear for terminating your instances? Just making sure you thought your analogy fully through.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by bardworx on Sunday November 19, 2017 @02:16PM (#15735384)
Maybe I’m having a brain fart but are you saying that if you run an ecommerce store or food delivery service on an AWS instance, Amazon can terminate their service without prior warning?
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by tzahola on Sunday November 19, 2017 @02:30PM (#15735464)
Yes. And the free market is in the clear for choosing other cloud providers.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by mc32 on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:38PM (#15735166)
Most of what they carry is not their store brands. They sell many different brands and labels of goods, so it's not a really apt comparison.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by kazinator on Sunday November 19, 2017 @02:11PM (#15735355)
Most of what Amazon's marketplace carries is not Amazon branded stuff.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by wlesieutre on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:07PM (#15735027)
The BMW dealer will sell you 80 different brands of carrot juicers though
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by kazinator on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:11PM (#15735042)
So what? That Safeway also sells plenty of things that are not their house brand (in addition to the house brand, or not).

Nobody requires them to; they probably do that because it's profitable to them not because they are worried that someone will regard them as the next Microsoft in the pejorative sense.

The fact that Amazon sells their device that is similar to Google's and not Google's is perfectly sensible, if they regard that as a strategic thing which is reasonable given what it is.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by wlesieutre on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:46PM (#15735201)
Not that I think they should be required to carry everything, but it's stupid from a consumer perspective. All the home streaming and "smart speaker" devices have important differences in what they can do and what they're compatible with. They're not interchangeable.

It'd be more like Safeway refusing to sell Mission brand tortillas because they have Safeway brand tortilla chips and that's basically the same thing, right? It's made from flour into thin layers and you eat it.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by kazinator on Sunday November 19, 2017 @04:14PM (#15735975)
> They're not interchangeable.

While that is true, more importantly, they are their respective purveyors' spyware devices using which they intend to claw their way into people's lives to an even greater extent.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by wlesieutre on Sunday November 19, 2017 @06:06PM (#15736469)
And claw you into their ecosystems.

Amazon is more than happy to sell you other brands of USB cables or clothes, despite having their own "Amazon Basics" brand.

But they draw the line at other brands of eBook readers and media players.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by pepr on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:20PM (#15735080)
I regularly buy Darigold milk (a local PNW brand) at Safeway.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by zitterbewegung on Sunday November 19, 2017 @12:12PM (#15734709)
Under your criteria (which I agree with) Facebook and or Google would be a better fit. The problem is that those blog posts have already been written to death.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by mseebach on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:26PM (#15735107)
That's a funny definition of "the problem". The problem should be what's actually the problem, not what we can write novel blog posts about.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by zitterbewegung on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:41PM (#15735179)
Well original creative reporting doesn’t have any money in it anymore .
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by kazinator on Sunday November 19, 2017 @12:52PM (#15734961)
> Is Amazon forcing us to install their products even if we don't use it, and crippling our OS if we try to remove it? No.

And is Microsoft buying a national grocery chain? Is Microsoft running a marketplace overrun with fake Chinese shit that takes 3 months to ship?

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by longcheng on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:32PM (#15735139)
Is Amazon forcing shit-hunters to buy Chinese shit for cheap? You get what you pay. There are expensive high quality Chinese products whiners can't afford.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by avenoir on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:59PM (#15735288)
You'd be surprised how many factory electronic components on Amazon are being advertised by "legitimate" vendors who are selling Chinese knockoffs. I just had a first-hand experience with this by purchasing a factory Nikon battery from what appears to be a legitimate Nikon dealer and receiving something that barely holds charge. It's not all so black and white.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by Spooky23 on Sunday November 19, 2017 @03:13PM (#15735687)
No, Amazon is forcing buyers looking to purchase goods to accept counterfeit crap at retail prices.

If I want a fake DVD, I can pay $3 in Chinatown, I don’t need to pay Amazon $20.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by kazinator on Sunday November 19, 2017 @04:17PM (#15735983)
If you stay within the "amazon.com" domain, it is often the case that this stuff is all you can find there, at any price for the class of thing you're looking for.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by coldtea on Sunday November 19, 2017 @12:37PM (#15734870)
>Is Amazon forcing us to install their products even if we don't use it, and crippling our OS if we try to remove it? No

Is any thing in an analogy the same as the thing it points to? No. That's the very idea behind an analogy: that it points to something being alike between two entities, not about them being/doing same exact things (which wouldn't need an analogy) or totally unlike things (for which one wouldn't make sense).

In this case, what Cringely wants you to think/see is not that Amazon "bundles it browser" or "sues Linux a la Sco", but how it's a huge monopoly, it uses its power as leverage, and it screws the little guys.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by mulmen on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:01PM (#15735004)
[citation needed]
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by coldtea on Sunday November 19, 2017 @02:12PM (#15735362)
Citation for what? These are all well established facts. Might as well argue the round earth theory.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by mikestew on Sunday November 19, 2017 @02:32PM (#15735480)
Citation for what?

I'd start with "huge monopoly". Unlike computing in the 90s, I can buy anything I want online without doing business with Amazon.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by coldtea on Sunday November 19, 2017 @05:14PM (#15736249)
Read the article? It talks about Amazon's Cloud business -- not the store.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by mikestew on Sunday November 19, 2017 @08:24PM (#15737091)
I did read it, actually, poor as it was. And I stand by my statement, because in addition to Chinese knock-offs I can also buy online storage and VPS from any number of vendors, and Amazon need never get near my credit card number.

Whether its Chinese knock-offs or online storage, Cringley fails to make the case for "huge monopoly" just like Microsoft. Microsoft got their OS monopoly via business practices that they arguably should have been (but weren't) convicted of. Amazon is taking over the world because...oh, I'll let Robert tell you in his own words:

"Part of the reason AWS is gaining market share is because Microsoft’s Azure doesn’t boot virtual machines quite as fast."

Well, those fuckers, with their crooked business dealings...wait a minute, did you just say a VM on Amazon's product boots faster than Microsoft's? Be right back...

Of course, Cringley will proceed to tell us the awful outcome of this monopoly, just like it was back in the 90s and early 2000s with Microsoft:

"Put simply, AWS is a pain to deal with if you are a customer big enough to be in personal communication and not just a credit card number. This, too, is like the old Microsoft."

So, to recap, Amazon is taking over the world because they have a better product, but the downside is that their customer service sucks. Microsoft took over the world through questionable (some argue illegal) business practices, and the end result of that was that nearly every computer sold for 15 years had a "Microsoft tax" added. Yup, exactly the same.

As I said, I can avoid doing business with Amazon just fine, whether I'm buying fidget spinners or a place to put a VM. I had no such option with the Microsoft of old.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by coldtea on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:23AM (#15738577)
>I did read it, actually, poor as it was. And I stand by my statement, because in addition to Chinese knock-offs I can also buy online storage and VPS from any number of vendors, and Amazon need never get near my credit card number.

When Microsoft was declared abusing its monopoly status, you could buy 100 different OSes from different vendors if you cared to, too.

Monopoly (abusing or not) is not about being able to buy stuff elsewhere, it's about what percentage of a market an entity has.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by mulmen on Monday November 20, 2017 @01:15PM (#15741863)
If these “facts” are so well established it should be easy for you to cite a source.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by solatic on Sunday November 19, 2017 @02:58PM (#15735612)
> Is Amazon forcing us to install their products

Vendor lock-in is a pretty powerful tool. They may not be forcing anyone to "install" their systems into AWS, but once they're installed, they're too difficult to "uninstall." A fundamental requirement of free markets is for customers to be able to leave incumbents for new companies with fresher products that present a better value - if customers de-facto can't leave AWS, then AWS has monopoly power over those customers.

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by Fnoord on Sunday November 19, 2017 @02:22PM (#15735420)
Of course not, and Microsoft was the new IBM, but that doesn't mean it was a 1:1 clone.

For a list of Amazon controversies, see [1]. It isn't complete. Example: it doesn't contain anything about MTurk [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com_controversies

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Mechanical_Turk#Labor_i...

Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by simonbarker87 on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:58PM (#15735277)
Amazon do however clone popular, novel, branded products under their own Amazon Basics range so there’s that.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by mikescandy on Sunday November 19, 2017 @01:51PM (#15735235)
ever tried a fire device?
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by pentae on Sunday November 19, 2017 @02:07PM (#15735328)
Last time I checked Amazon didn't remove the headphone jack from my phone or my USB-A port from my new laptop either. Doesn't get any more evil than that, really.
Re:Amazon Is Becoming the New Microsoft by rad_gruchalski on Sunday November 19, 2017 @04:38PM (#15736084)
It's not like they've removed these while stuff was in your pocket. Huh. Don't buy if you don't like it.