News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by userbinator on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @10:22PM (#15659565)
This actually sounds a bit scary, and I hope doesn't become reality, since it might turn out to be like termites --- given how much we rely on plastics, the damage caused by an inadvertent release or application could be severe.

Also, polyethylene is one of the simplest plastics and can be recycled quite effectively; so the real problem is getting people to reuse and recycle, and not disposal. Much of it comes from petroleum sources so a nontrivial amount of energy was already spent in its production too.

Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by 52-6F-62 on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:29PM (#15659865)
I think your second point is the most pertinent. I recall hearing about this subject a while back.

Frankly, I wonder why (besides the loud sound of the Sunchip bags[0]) that cellulose and other bioplastics aren't utilized more—at least for common and commonly-dispensed items like beer-can rings, food wrappers, and other short-term packaging.

---

[0] https://vimeo.com/9664621

Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by userbinator on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:43PM (#15659919)
and other short-term packaging

The main problem with biodegradable plastics is that they have an inherent "expiry date", the countdown to which begins basically upon manufacturing. Product which could be stored for an unexpectedly long time may start degrading too early and thus become prematurely unusable. Trying to avoid waste myself, I've had a few times where I reused plastic bags which were biodegradable, without being too aware of it, and had some bad surprises when they functioned exactly as designed and disintegrated at the worst of times.

Personally, I'm not a fan of biodegradables --- they seem to be a way for the manufacturers to keep making things which don't last as long, a sort of forced obolescence, under the guise of being "green". Also, overall it probably takes more energy to produce these materials than recycling existing plastics.

Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by 52-6F-62 on Thursday November 09, 2017 @12:54AM (#15660202)
> a sort of forced obsolescence,

That's a good point I hadn't considered. I was referring more specifically to really temporary storage. For instance, those baby spinach containers are usually made of bioplastics because the contents expire rapidly no matter your intentions. There are often other vegetable or grocery-shelf products that might not have long shelf-lives or delayed uses that could utilize the plastics.

Surely we could divide the products into long-life and short-life? I'm speaking mainly to food products here. I don't see the immediate need to eradicate all plastics from use! I regularly keep my grocery plastic bags and reuse them time and time again. I should have been more specific!

That said, it looks like the costs required to manufacture bioplastics are reducing[0]. The problem with non-bioplastics being that many of the refuse that people don't properly recycle will be here maybe long after you and me, or we can just punt it on down the generational-line, but as we've been witness to more recently that doesn't seem to be a great strategy.

---

[0] https://phys.org/news/2015-07-biodegradable-plastic-cheaper-...

Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by amelius on Thursday November 09, 2017 @09:06AM (#15662437)
Also, if the packaging degrades quickly, then by definition it ends up in your food in larger quantities (not sure if that is a problem though).
Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by totalZero on Friday November 10, 2017 @07:19AM (#15669391)
The food inside has an expiration date too. As long as your container exceeds that, all should be well for most cases, no?

That leaves two necessary improvements:

1. Decreasing the loudness and crunchiness of the sound, and

2. Controlling the biodegradability of the material.

> Also, overall it probably takes more energy to produce these materials than recycling existing plastics.

Are you taking into account the future cost of de-plasticking oceans, rivers, streams, and other contaminated sites? That should be included too. Deferred costs are still costs.

Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by webkike on Thursday November 09, 2017 @01:04AM (#15660244)
> they seem to be a way for the manufacturers to keep making things which don't last as long, a sort of forced obolescence

If the product is explicitly marketed not to last I see no problem with it. I prefer buying food without excess preservatives, for example.

Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by legulere on Thursday November 09, 2017 @01:21AM (#15660290)
Reduce comes before reuse and recycle. There are several countries with 0 landfill rates and high recycling rates in Europe, but that doesn’t solve the problem. We actually need to re-evaluate our use of plastic.
Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by smhost on Thursday November 09, 2017 @01:46AM (#15660390)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYDQcBQUDpw

For some ideas about how to cut waste. A different approach, with emphasis on recycling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eym10GGidQU

As much as the internet likes to make fun of people like this, I honestly don't see anything wrong with what they're doing. And they look happy and healthy.

Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by icc97 on Thursday November 09, 2017 @04:08AM (#15660932)
I'm not sure how true that is [0]:

> What the “0” landfill means is that no waste is landfilled without pre-treatment…

In 2014 there was only Germany that claims 0 landfill (subject to the above disclaimer) and there's 6 self reported countries that claim below 10%.

[0]: https://www.zerowasteeurope.eu/2014/04/and-the-best-waste-pe...

Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by thatcat on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:27PM (#15659851)
"If a single enzyme is responsible for this chemical process, its reproduction on a large scale using biotechnological methods should be achievable." It seems like the intent is to find the mechanism of action and transfer it to a microbe. Could be super useful in oceans and other places that micro plastics are common.
Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by dx034 on Thursday November 09, 2017 @02:52AM (#15660655)
I'd still keep them in a filter rather than releasing those microbes to the ocean. We don't know what other effects this could have on life.
Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by lostlogin on Thursday November 09, 2017 @03:06AM (#15660701)
As far as I’m aware, rubbish dumps are lined with a membrane to help control leaching. Having this membrane attacked would be fairly unhelpful.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_liner

Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by jobu on Thursday November 09, 2017 @09:14AM (#15662501)
> Also, polyethylene is one of the simplest plastics and can be recycled quite effectively

Polyethylene can be recycled, but depending on the price of oil it's often cheaper to make new things than try to recycle them. Planet money did an episode a few years back that talked about this:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/03/27/395815221/epis...

"One day it's profitable to recycle a bottle. The next day, some number in the global economy changes and that bottle suddenly becomes trash."

Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by ZeroGravitas on Thursday November 09, 2017 @10:30AM (#15663192)
Just because something is cheaper, or more profitable, doesn't make it the right thing to do. You'd ideally include externalties that are not captured by the price.

To give one related example, just dumping your trash in the street is cheaper than paying people to come and haul it away but no one seems to make the argument all about cost in that case.

Particularly in the US, propaganda campaigns against the entire concept of recycling seem to have been very succesful. Often these are pushed by libertarians and you can trace the funding back to the Koch brothers who (entirely coincidentally of course) are invested in companies that supply the virgin feedstock materials to make new plastic bags or whatever.

They've also spend millions on anti-EV and anti-solar campaigns two other rival industries where their product is only "better" if you totally ignore externalities.

Re:Plastic-eating caterpillars: An escape from a shopping ba... by DigitalJack on Thursday November 09, 2017 @11:33AM (#15663742)
If you are of the belief that we have reached or will soon reach peak oil, then this sounds like a business opportunity for temporal recycling in the form of stockpiling the plastic until recycling it is valuable.