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Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by zaptheimpaler on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @01:54AM (#15539526)
This is exactly what I needed - not a lot of people are doing eventually inconsistent databases yet. If theres a network partition, shits probably fucked anyways so its best to throw away all your data.

Unfortunately the metadata (list of files) is stored in memory, not network. Not quite as unreliable as I would like.

Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by techdragon on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @02:43AM (#15539700)
Sounds like your looking for something like MangoDb https://github.com/dcramer/mangodb

Note: joke assumes parent poster was somewhat humorous

Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by DarronWyke on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @09:45AM (#15541442)
Obligatory: "Tokutek claims to improve MongoDB performance 20x. It is unclear if this also means losing 20x as many documents."
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by emptyroads on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @06:10AM (#15540503)
nsafs might be another good choice: https://github.com/freedomtools/nsafs
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by djsumdog on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @09:48AM (#15541464)
I didn't realize there were so many of these jokefs projects.

It's like the software dev equivalent of those silly domain jokes:

https://helenkellersimulator.org/

http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/

http://thingsididlastnight.com/

Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by empyrical on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @12:34PM (#15542888)
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by LambdaComplex on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @11:32AM (#15542297)
I wrote a joke filesystem that does nothing but provide 1x1 PNG files[0]

(I was bored and asked for dumb filesystem ideas on IRC)

0. https://github.com/sector-f/colorfs

Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by metahost on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @09:33AM (#15541378)
That's innovative!
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by dragonwriter on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @11:50AM (#15542483)
Eventually inconsistent databases could save a lot of the effort developers faced with databases without inconsistency guarantees put into implementing eventual inconsistency at the application level.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by chillaxtian on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @02:11AM (#15539601)
Just had a quick look to see the general flow.

Only looked at the read path, which is roughly:

* filesystem receives read

* blocks on a semaphore (https://github.com/yarrick/pingfs/blob/master/chunk.c#L141)

* network thread wakes up semaphore when ICMP reply containing data is received

* filesystem thread copies data into new buffer to return from syscall

* filesystem relinquishes chunk back to network thread, which wakes up, sends it back to be echoed on the network via ICMP, and frees the in-memory buffer (https://github.com/yarrick/pingfs/blob/master/chunk.c#L107)

How silly :)

Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by robin_reala on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @02:45AM (#15539707)
This reminds me of delay line memory, storing information in the echo of a sound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay_line_memory . LEO had long tubes of mercury for this, not sure I would have wanted to work in that office.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by avian on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @08:00AM (#15540917)
I think very few bits here are actually stored in-flight on the copper/fiber/radio at any time. Most of them are probably stored in various buffers of networking equipment (which are ordinary semiconductor RAM). It would be interesting to see someone do an actual breakdown for, say, a transatlantic link.

My gut feeling says that only geostationary satellite links have any significant number of bits in-flight.

Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by detaro on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @08:13AM (#15540967)
Very simplified, but assuming a 5000 km cable and 300 000 km/s speed of light (is slightly slower in fiber), light needs 0.01666... seconds for that. At 10 Gbit/s (fairly slow), that'd mean ~ 166 Mbit or ~ 20 Megabyte in flight. (I hope I didn't forget a factor 1000 somewhere)
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by avian on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @09:12AM (#15541241)
Your calculation makes sense. However, for those 20 MB in flight, how much data is stored in buffers? I think that could be approximated by comparing ping time with speed of light.

e.g. if a 5000 km long link at 10 Gbit/s has latency of 0.0166 s, then you have zero buffering. If you have latency of 0.2 s, then around 2 Gbit of data must be stored in buffers somewhere, making 20 MB in flight only 1% of all data stored in such a ping filesystem.

Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by howard941 on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @09:26AM (#15541333)
How about the earth-moon-earth path for 768,000km?

EDIT: For the EME path that's around 3 gigs in flight

Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by adrianN on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @10:30AM (#15541795)
We've found a viable way to a space elevator: Sell it as a delay-line storage device.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by devrandomguy on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @01:52PM (#15543594)
In a small toroidally shaped universe, your radio is also your memory. All emissions eventually return to their origin, but you can reorder memory transmissions by moving while the data is in flight.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by datenwolf on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @05:27AM (#15540326)
Same principle, but using slabs of glass, was used in PAL analog color television until digital memory got cheap enough to implement the delay line.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by dbcurtis on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @12:54PM (#15543042)
Actually, Engineering Research Associates (predecessor of Univac) built a CPU with mercury delay line memory using acoustic transducers to create a shift register. It did bit-serial binary arithmetic. You could get two logic gates or one latch out of a dual pentode, so a bit-serial ALU could fit easily in a single rack.

I'm not familiar with the overall architecture, though, unfortunately. I do remember having to do a most-significant-bit first, bit-serial, two's complement adder as a homework assignment that was inspire by the machine.

Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by cvwright on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @02:07AM (#15539586)
This is the perfect transport for GNU Terry Pratchett.

http://www.gnuterrypratchett.com/

Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by dang on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @01:46PM (#15543519)
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by thelomen on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @02:47AM (#15539712)
Reminds me a little of PingTunnel :) https://www.cs.uit.no/~daniels/PingTunnel
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by catwell on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @09:57AM (#15541520)
The author of PingFS is actually the same as iodine (IP over DNS: http://code.kryo.se/iodine/).
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by kelson on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @08:11AM (#15540961)
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by speedplane on Thursday October 26, 2017 @09:31AM (#15558602)
Of course the gut reaction to this is "why?" and the obvious answer is "because I can"... that's fine, but there's been plenty of filesystems built on protocols or things that weren't really supposed to be filesystems.

I remember way back when gmail first announced giving away 1GB of storage, there were a bunch of hacky things to turn SMTP into a real filesystem.

So, I get the answer to "why make this weird filesystem", but I'd really like to know: why is this weird filesystem, weirder or more intriguing than the others that have come before it.

Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by coolspot on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @01:36AM (#15539471)
This needs IPO.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by vthriller on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @02:52AM (#15539725)
You mean ICO, right?
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @03:57AM (#15539940)
Want to buy some ICMPCoins?
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by kodisha on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @05:33AM (#15540353)
Ping Coin or i'm out!
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by SwellJoe on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @04:20AM (#15540030)
Can't wait for the ICO.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by thsealienbstrds on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @02:39AM (#15539684)
redundancy == broadcast ping
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by mmjaa on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @06:23AM (#15548889)
Cool .. all we need now is a host waaaaay out in space, and we can just use space itself to store all our data (not that we aren't already) ..
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by thoastbrot on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @10:31AM (#15541799)
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by Annatar on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @02:24AM (#15539641)
Linux is the only intended target OS, portability is not a goal.

Goodbye then.

Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by chrisper on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @03:09AM (#15539775)
You can fork it and port it to something like dokany to make it work in Windows.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by Const-me on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @06:55AM (#15540665)
Based on Annatar's profile, he'd like it to work on FreeBSD.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by Annatar on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @08:34AM (#15541075)
illumos and it’s the programmer’s “Linux only” attitude which irritates me.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by Sir_Cmpwn on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @09:37AM (#15541391)
I get your sentiment in general but... you're upset because a tool for storing files in IMCP pings isn't available on your OS? Poor you, where else are you going to keep your files!
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by Annatar on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @10:20AM (#15541716)
No, I’m irritated because of the programmer’s attitude, which is quite systemic in programming and has been for a while.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by Sir_Cmpwn on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @10:25AM (#15541754)
Well, it's not merited, and you're being rude. I'm saying this as someone who references the POSIX standard several times a week to ensure portability. This kind of tool is a toy project and is by its nature highly dependent on non-portable interfaces.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by Annatar on Thursday October 26, 2017 @02:25AM (#15556819)
If you’re against GNU and Linux like I am then it is very much merited.

I utterly fail to see how being honest and direct by expressing my irritation is rude and am both insulted and appalled by what I perceive to be the Anglo-Saxon definition of rude hoisted upon me. I could just as easily turn this around and say that your lack of consideration for what is a different value system is just as rude. The entire argument around “rudeness” is nonsense, I’m not at all sorry to write.

Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by Sir_Cmpwn on Thursday October 26, 2017 @09:21AM (#15558539)
Buddy, I hate GNU and Linux as much as you do. More, probably. You and I are on the same side here. You can either continue to attempt to extract yourself from me into a special class of person for which your behavior is supposedly acceptable, or take a good look at yourself and decide to be better in the future.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by Annatar on Friday October 27, 2017 @06:45AM (#15567169)
I’m not doing anything wrong.
Re:Pingfs: A filesystem where data is stored as ICMP Echo pa... by djsumdog on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @09:49AM (#15541470)
wosh