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Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by scoopr on Friday October 20, 2017 @04:51AM (#15514396)
I've been looking at librem laptops, as I'd kinda like a dedicated linux laptop. But as with many of these kinds of projects, i18n concerns are secondary, and in this case, there is no scandinavian/nordic keyboard options :/ (And I do appreciate that it might not be quite simple to have all kinds of keyboard configurations available)
Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by zsoltgyongyosi on Friday October 20, 2017 @05:05AM (#15514444)
It's surprisingly easy to switch to the English layout. As a programmer, it was refreshing to leave behind the convoluted key combinations while coding. (I'm looking at you, `tilde`, on a Hungarian keyboard)

On Linux, writing accents using a compose key isn't much slower than typing the letters directly either.

Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by oelmekki on Friday October 20, 2017 @06:05AM (#15514651)
I've considered a few times switching to a qwerty (from french azerty), but there are two things that made me pull back:

1. french people I know who use qwerty tend to not write any accentuated characters anymore. I'm ready to accept compose keys are usable, but it clearly seems to encourage incorrect spelling when you use a language with a lot of accentuated characters in a sentence

2. vim. I really don't see myself fighting to remap my habits and workflows, given what I perceive as very few benefits switching layout would provide

Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by reirob on Friday October 20, 2017 @09:03AM (#15515407)
Hello, I'm living in France and I made the switch to qwerty and it was one of my best work-hacks in my live (after learning touch typing). It took around 3 weeks to get used. The advantage is soo huge! Just to take your fears - I'm a heavy VI user and I have to say after switching to qwerty you will get to love VI even more. Not even talking about programming.

Regarding your concern with accents: Under Linux I am using English (International with AltGr dead keys) which allows me to compose accents by pressing AltGr then the key(s) that represent the accent and then the base character. So for à I press AltGr+Backtick and then 'a'. The advantage is that it gives me all of the accents that I need in Europe - there is no problem in writing German äÄöÖüÜß, and even for French you can easily have a œ in cœur - I would not even know how to get this one on an azerty keyboard.

For Windows there is as well a possibility to install this layout.

The other advantage is, that if you work a lot with different countries - I am remotely often on customer's computers via different remote sessions - then no matter what country, you always have qwerty - on Windows it's normally just one Alt+Shift away.

Definitely good investment and I will not go back (by the way I had to learn 3 layouts in my life - German, then French and now I am so happy with qwerty.

Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by abecedarius on Friday October 20, 2017 @10:13AM (#15515917)
Has nobody made a kind of autocorrect that just adds accents and such? Of course you’d sometimes have to fix them yourself, but my experience so far learning French on an iPad (coming from English and not wanting to learn a new keyboard too) has been that this ought to be a reasonable approach.
Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by oelmekki on Friday October 20, 2017 @10:43AM (#15516153)
I like the idea, actually. But I can guarantee that given how teachers/parents/old people always complain that young french people can't write french properly, they would brutally yell at this idea :)
Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by hiq on Friday October 20, 2017 @09:02AM (#15515397)
1. If you care about your spelling, you just need to find the right layout (which would be "English (international AltGr dead keys)" on Debian), then it's almost as easy as the azerty keyboard: é : altgr + e ` : altgr + ` (then the letter) ¨ : shift + altgr + ' (then the letter) ^ : altgr + 6 (then the letter)

If I remember correctly it's slightly easier to type é and è on an azerty keyboard, but not that much.

2. vim is qwerty centric, the best example for me was using CTRL-[ instead of ESC which actually makes sense on a qwerty but not on an azerty. It doesn't take that much time to learn new habits.

Overall, I would advise against changing your layout unless there's another good reason. I decided to switch because I was using many computers with a qwerty layout, and only my personal computer was still with an azerty layout. It sounded more productive to just have one layout instead of having to think about it.

Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by oelmekki on Friday October 20, 2017 @09:52AM (#15515742)
Well, I guess it's a matter of preference, then, because I definitely feel like having to press 3 keys instead of one is indeed a problem when you have to do it four or five times per sentence :)

A side note, btw, regarding CTRL-[ : it seems not to be well known, and it doesn't work on things that use "alt" to access file menu (like gvim), but using alt + <normal mode key> in insert mode instantly drops to normal mode and execute that key. For example, I usually leave insert mode by doing A-j or A-h, I never hit the ESC key.

My favorite trick is `A-e a` when inside parenthesis to jump just after it and still be in insert mode, like when writing parameters to a function and jumping out of parameters list to add the `{` character.

Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by lmm on Friday October 20, 2017 @07:51AM (#15515007)
> I'm ready to accept compose keys are usable, but it clearly seems to encourage incorrect spelling when you use a language with a lot of accentuated characters in a sentence

I don't think it's at all clear, because most people don't have a compose key - only linux does that.

> vim. I really don't see myself fighting to remap my habits and workflows, given what I perceive as very few benefits switching layout would provide

Being able to use a default vim is very useful, and the default vim is qwerty-oriented. (It took me a long time to learn to use hjkl on Dvorak).

Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by einr on Friday October 20, 2017 @05:46AM (#15514591)
Scandinavian languages do not really have accented letters, though. What we have in Swedish, Danish and Norwegian are three more letters than the English alphabet, with distinct sound and meaning, that happen to look a bit like accented A's and O's. These letters are very common in our languages and a without them would be nigh unusable; like a keyboard without V, P or B (these letters have similar frequency in Swedish)
Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by ploek on Friday October 20, 2017 @07:52AM (#15515018)
As a German living in Sweden, I've switched to EURkey[1]. That way I don't have to give up the Swedish å or the German ü and ß. And I have a US base layout, which makes coding easier.

[1] https://eurkey.steffen.bruentjen.eu/layout.html

Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by vidarh on Friday October 20, 2017 @06:06AM (#15514656)
I'm Norwegian, and what I've found is that I prefer a US keyboard layout for coding, and only switch to a Norwegian layout when writing Norwegian.

Especially given that æøå are generally using the triangle right of p and l, and so messing with my brackets and braces.

I remember those well enough that I have no reason to have them on the keyboard, which doesn't make it particularly inconvenient not to have them on the keys, and I can always switch to US layout with a quick keyboard combo if I need a character I don't remember the position of on Norwegian layout.

Of course, it helps that I live in the UK where the layout differences between US/UK keyboards are minor, so I'm not particularly inconvenienced when I have to use someone else's keyboard - if I lived in Norway I'd probably have stuck to a Norwegian layout.

Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by scoopr on Friday October 20, 2017 @05:57AM (#15514626)
For programming, yes, it might even be beneficial to use the US layout, and I've even used FI keyboard with US layout for longer stretches of time. But for communicating with own language, not quite as useful. I guess I could just not do that ;)
Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by otron on Friday October 20, 2017 @06:12AM (#15514680)
I use the "mac" variant option for the US QWERTY layout (`setxkbmap us -variant mac`). This functions as a regular US QWERTY layout, but I've access to various "special" characters and latin extended characters (e.g. æåøœ¡), as well as ^'"`~ as dead keys (to create îûéèñũäüö or whatever) via a modifier key (I use alt, but you can set it to whatever).

This allows me to use a single functional keyboard layout to write English, Norwegian _and_ code in.

Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by mpartel on Friday October 20, 2017 @07:48AM (#15514992)
I made https://github.com/mpartel/ee-altgr-keymap which is essentially the US layout plus AltGr+A -> ä AltGr+O -> ö

You could easily add å if you want.

Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by wvh on Friday October 20, 2017 @09:58AM (#15515783)
I use US/intl (also the new Dutch) layout for Nordic languages, Dutch and German. You get all the characters for Scandinavian languages easily with the EURkey layout (AltGr + aow for äöå). I did bind en-dash and em-dash to AltGr + - and AltGr + _ respectively because I use those a lot.

I have also tied CapsLock to the Nordic layout (Swedish/Finnish), so when CapsLock is on, you can blindly type and get those öäå characters on a regular qwerty layout. I never seem to use that, but at least I'm rid of CapsLock. ;)

I write both code and text in different languages, and in international environments just getting used to a standard qwerty layout has turned out to be the most efficient option.

Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by dredmorbius on Friday October 20, 2017 @08:14AM (#15515133)
You can remap the keyboard at will in either console or Xorg via software utilities.

Consolekeys (I think that's still it) for console, xmodmap for Xorg.

Generally, Xorg will prompt you for the desired layout anyhow.

Mind, the labeling on the physical keyboard itself may not match. I generally don't even look at the keyboard when typing, so that's not an issue.

Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by cryptonector on Friday October 20, 2017 @12:01PM (#15516813)
It's a laptop. To not hurt yourself it's best to use it with an external keyboard and mouse anyways, so there's your I18N :)
Re:Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Manageme... by rihegher on Friday October 20, 2017 @05:37AM (#15514571)
no french azerty ones either :(