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Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by fro0116 on Monday October 16, 2017 @02:45AM (#15481320)
Is there anything at all we can do to protect ourselves until our router gets patched?

From the earlier thread [1] I gleamed that maybe a MAC filter could help, but it sounds like that's not going to help much because MAC addresses can be easily spoofed.

The article here recommends sticking to sites with HTTPS, which isn't really something we always have control over, and isn't something we can realistically expect our non-technical WiFi users to be able to strictly adhere to.

VPNs were also suggested, but again, mandating that everybody on our WiFi must connect through a VPN is rather impractical, and I'm personally not sure which VPN providers are supposed to be trustworthy to begin with.

If people here have other suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15478750

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by dspillett on Monday October 16, 2017 @06:37AM (#15482231)
> Is there anything at all we can do to protect ourselves until our router gets patched?

Only use secure transports over wireless connections. Which many including myself have been recommending for years anyway.

Properly configured HTTPS (i.e. servers with good protocol/cypher/key options preferably with HSTS too) should be sufficient so as a user you can make sure you limit what you access over wireless. Luckily HTTPS is becoming very common both for actual web-sites/-applications and other services that use it as a transport (TFS for instance). As a service admin, protect your users by mandating HTTPS.

Similarly, SSH and protocols wrapped in it are safe. RDP should be good too if correctly configured.

If you are using "plain" or broken protocols over wireless (for example, file access via SMB/samba): stop unless the content being accessed is public anyway. This may affect many in office environments. If you are responsible for running a network make sure no traffic via unprotected protocols goes over network legs with wireless access points.

DNS is generally not secure which could a concern for this if spoofing attacks are successful (so far only inspection/eavesdropping attacks have been proven?) as that would allow DNS poisoning. HTTPS and friends still protect your content here if your users use them properly (i.e. they never ignore certificate warnings), though if you are paranoid about privacy (which some people need to be) an outsider knowing what DNS lookups you make could be enough of a concern.

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by pantulis on Monday October 16, 2017 @05:12AM (#15481843)
In fact, using secure traffic and/or VPNs is the least important of worries, as an end user I can be taught to use these mechanisms for communication. The real issue here is that, if I understand correctly, all of a sudden the technical infrastructure of any relevant IT operation is exposed. As an IT manager this would be my worst nightmare: if I am running a WPA2 network, I need to make sure that there is no in-the-clear communication going on on these particular network segments.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by lucaspiller on Monday October 16, 2017 @03:23AM (#15481438)
> I'm personally not sure which VPN providers are supposed to be trustworthy to begin with.

You can host your own internal VPN, it's just to ensure the traffic over wifi is secure. If you are a corporation you probably have a VPN already, for people outside the office to access the internal network. Then just setup rules so wifi clients can only access the VPN server (however yes, it is easier said that done for most home users).

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by baby on Monday October 16, 2017 @04:14AM (#15481626)
> The article here recommends sticking to sites with HTTPS, which isn't really something we always have control over, and isn't something we can realistically expect our non-technical WiFi users to be able to strictly adhere to.

Luckily most major websites/applications you'll use will have HTTPS and HSTS enabled.

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by 3pt14159 on Monday October 16, 2017 @08:19AM (#15482659)
Assuming you're running an IT department for something serious, you could theoretically get a sophisticated enough router (like a Pineapple) you can force all unencrypted traffic through it to an internal CA that you manually install on all clients. Then just do the opposite of a protocol downgrade attack, lol.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by YouKnowBetter on Monday October 16, 2017 @07:23AM (#15482424)
It is more the CLIENTS (unless your router is acting as a range extender, it is not a client) that needs to be patched / updated.

Source: https://www.krackattacks.com/

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by lukepothier on Monday October 16, 2017 @05:44AM (#15481998)
> I'm personally not sure which VPN providers are supposed to be trustworthy to begin with.

I can recommend Mullvad[1] which takes none of your information for registration, and which ticks all the right boxes on That One Privacy Site's VPN comparison chart[2].

[1] https://www.mullvad.net

[2] https://thatoneprivacysite.net/vpn-comparison-chart

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by jagermo on Monday October 16, 2017 @03:21AM (#15481433)
Use WPA with RADIUS. If you have a NAS at home, there is a good chance you can install a radius server on it. Or use a Raspberry Pi: http://www.binaryheartbeat.net/2013/12/raspberry-pi-based-fr...
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by Xylakant on Monday October 16, 2017 @03:37AM (#15481492)
Quite a few clients lack WPA2 Enterprise capabilities, especially in the home network sector (hey, playstation, I'm looking at you), making this a no-go for a sizable chunk of the population.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by Aaargh20318 on Monday October 16, 2017 @03:44AM (#15481519)
A playstation is not a portable device, therefore it doesn't need wifi (they shouldn't even have included a wifi card IMO)
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by hug on Monday October 16, 2017 @03:49AM (#15481532)
I rent an apartment with double brick walls everywhere. I cannot install cabling in the wall, or really anywhere it's not a severe trip hazard. For the most part, this is fine, because almost every device I own that requires internet access has wifi. (The few that don't, like my NAS, can live next to my networking equipment.)

Your suggestion would have meant that I couldn't connect my Playstation to the Internet, which is a little bit silly, especially given that my scenario is not an uncommon one.

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by davidsong on Monday October 16, 2017 @04:23AM (#15481671)
Powerline adapters are pretty cheap nowadays and fast enough. I get synchronous 200mbps over a pair of TP-Link gigabit ones in a place with really poor quality wiring, and they come with power pass-through so I don't even lose a power socket.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by MaxBarraclough on Monday October 16, 2017 @04:49AM (#15481759)
> Powerline adapters are pretty cheap nowadays and fast enough

Well that was hug's point - yes, you can buy your way out of the problem, but if you have integrated Wi-Fi, you don't need to.

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by egeozcan on Monday October 16, 2017 @05:15AM (#15481850)
I do use a powerline adapter and it works but I'm afraid that there aren't too many eyes looking at them - what if they have a big flaw and it stays dark?
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by tomfanning on Monday October 16, 2017 @06:47AM (#15482280)
There's no way these adaptors aren't vulnerable, given the nature of them. In my opinion. Extracting the signal from the mains and feeding it into GNU Radio for demodulation, then subsequent attack, would be an interesting exercise.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by ptr on Monday October 16, 2017 @08:01AM (#15482577)
Why is that? AFAIK, the data is encrypted.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by cjsuk on Monday October 16, 2017 @03:57AM (#15481565)
CAT5 and duct tape are your friend. I have the same problem and it’s quite easy to manipulate it around and behind things without problems. One section of cable I have is 19m to span a 3m floor.

We have to do this because I live in crowded London and WiFi barely works when you have 40 other networks next to you.

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by crowbahr on Monday October 16, 2017 @05:48AM (#15482009)
> CAT5 and duct tape are your friend.

That's heinously ugly though.

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by musage on Monday October 16, 2017 @08:51AM (#15482812)
That's only because you can't see RF pollution. In comparison, it's tidy.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by cjsuk on Monday October 16, 2017 @06:11AM (#15482113)
It's certainly not aesthetically pleasing, although there is some mileage in that department with printed duct tapes, but it works which is the main thing. To be honest with careful routing it's only taped down in one place in a corner. You wouldn't know there were any cables running around unless you look very carefully.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by varjag on Monday October 16, 2017 @06:37AM (#15482232)
There are cable channels out there, including really slim ones. They make it slightly less ugly.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by Aaargh20318 on Monday October 16, 2017 @04:21AM (#15481663)
> I rent an apartment with double brick walls everywhere. I cannot install cabling in the wall, or really anywhere it's not a severe trip hazard.

Hollow baseboards.

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by Xylakant on Monday October 16, 2017 @03:55AM (#15481561)
Try telling your landlord to install cabling everywhere. I'm in the lucky position that I had cabling installed when they wired my apartment, but I'm aware that I'm the exception.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by chmars on Monday October 16, 2017 @05:08AM (#15481821)
That is not a solution: Today's computer is the smartphone with wireless Internet access.

(I know, I know, we here still use traditional computers but we are probably a minority …)

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by Xylakant on Monday October 16, 2017 @05:15AM (#15481851)
Oh, sure that's not the solution - I don't connect my laptop to cables everywhere I carry it. It's still nice to have wires strung because that allows me to connect all stationary equipment to a cable (IPTV receiver, apple TV, TV, Playstation, VOIP, etc.) and position Wifi APs where they're needed. Cables still provide the best and most stable network, despite all advances in Wifi tech. I can absolutely recommend doing this if you have the opportunity. The cost is negligible if you're about to (re)do the electrical wires.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by scarface74 on Monday October 16, 2017 @07:12PM (#15487409)
Oh well. I guess I’ll be connecting my iPhone via Ethernet....

https://lifehacker.com/hack-together-a-way-to-connect-an-ipa...

Plug the USB-to-Ethernet adapter into the camera adapter

Plug an Ethernet cable into the USB-to-Ethernet adapter Plug the Ethernet cable into your router

Plug the lightning cable into the camera adapter

Plug the lightning cable into the power adapter (or powered USB hub)

Plug the power adapter (or powered USB hub) into the wall

Connect the camera adapter (or the powered usb hub) to your iOS device

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by fgjjgutjvnu on Monday October 16, 2017 @05:27AM (#15481909)
Completely unrealistic, sorry, but I don't want to have to bother laying cables everywhere in my home.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by ocdtrekkie on Monday October 16, 2017 @03:47AM (#15481525)
Not only does it not need it, but the difference between gaming on Wi-Fi and gaming on Ethernet is immense. For any competitive game, Wi-Fi is a no-go to begin with.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by Xylakant on Monday October 16, 2017 @03:57AM (#15481567)
There's people that still enjoy a good old-fashioned single player game, but would love to get patches via the internet. Wifi is perfectly fine for that, even sneakernet would be, but the playstation doesn't support that.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by Aaargh20318 on Monday October 16, 2017 @04:23AM (#15481670)
PS4 games are getting quite large, I've got PS4 games that are 70+ GB. You really don't want to download those over wifi.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by arjie on Monday October 16, 2017 @04:33AM (#15481704)
My laptop pulls 280 Mbps according to fast.com. Switching to wired gives me 700 Mbps so I guess the difference is between a forty minute wait and a 15 minute wait, but either way it's fast enough that I'll take the convenience of not having to lay cables.

I imagine everyone else feels the same way: mostly limited by the upstream. If I had 100 Mbps Internet, there'd be no difference, for instance.

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by Aaargh20318 on Monday October 16, 2017 @04:46AM (#15481747)
You fail to account for the shitty wifi chipset in the PS4, no way you're getting 280Mbps over wifi on a PS4. Even wired downloads max out at around 300Mbit, even though I easily get 900+ mbit on e.g. a speed test.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by Xylakant on Monday October 16, 2017 @05:10AM (#15481830)
That assumes you get 300Mbps internet. A common max in Germany is 50Mbps, many people are still stuck with 16Mbps. 100Mbps and more are comparatively rare. Wifi speed is not the restricting factor, even with the PS4s chipset.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by StudentStuff on Monday October 16, 2017 @07:30AM (#15482447)
Sounds like a shitty situation for Germans, but here stateside cable ISPs have been offering 100+Mbps plans for a few years, and Telcos like Verizon ran fiber to quite a bit of their footprint. Gigabit is increasingly available, especially in urban areas.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by MaxBarraclough on Monday October 16, 2017 @04:48AM (#15481749)
> Not only does it not need it

Well you don't need a Playstation to begin with, but millions of users find it a useful feature.

> For any competitive game, Wi-Fi is a no-go to begin with.

Sure, but it's also used for streaming, as well as downloading/patching games, including single-player titles.

Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by simias on Monday October 16, 2017 @04:20AM (#15481653)
If you're a pro gamer maybe, for more casual gaming on public servers (good) wifi hardly makes a difference in my experience.
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by 6ue7nNMEEbHcM on Monday October 16, 2017 @07:23AM (#15482422)
Does it really help? One comment on reddit suggests that switching to RADIUS is not enough to be protected against this kind of attack. https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/76lj5q/this_is_a_...
Re:Severe flaw in WPA2 protocol leaves Wi-Fi traffic open to... by ClashTheBunny on Monday October 16, 2017 @08:17AM (#15482650)
The other article says the opposite:

The attack works against both WPA1 and WPA2, against personal and enterprise networks, and against any cipher suite being used (WPA-TKIP, AES-CCMP, and GCMP).