Which drug? Context matters.

Salvia can be a very negative experience and has allegedly caused suicides.

DMT is almost a universally euphoric and positive experience although not Ayahausca. I have never heard of anyone committing suicide after either.

The big problem with psychedelics is how people spread fear and uncertainty. Try sharing the death statistics for alcohol the next time you share a bottle of wine with a romantic interest.

If salvia is very negative for you then you're doing too much. Sadly most people use salvia "extracts" which are almost guaranteed to be far too much to handle. Stick with plain leaf.

Salvia is, for me, is quite rough.

But I can't imagine it causing suicide. What's the progression/causation there? Or do we just not have enough data to know?

It would likely be quite difficult to ethically do such a study. Correlation alone isn't compelling: it could simply be that the underlying reason a significant share of people turn to [insert mind-altering substance here] is underlying emotional suffering, trauma, etc. and if the substance doesn't offer any improvement they end up resorting to suicide.

Maybe.

But based on the 3rd-hand reports I have read (the suicide can't/doesn't report), the self-kill-decision seems more immediate than the realization that the efficacy of the substance wasn't, you know, efficacious.

Yea, in simple terms it has a multiplier effect on everything you experience. If feelings go bad, they can go really bad and remain that way afterwards.

But you commented on suicide. I also have a friend who unfortunately passed this way. Do you have any data on this? From what I have seen, studies have been limited.

I had read somewhere on erowid years ago a study where an increase in mental illness and suicide after psychadelic use was positive but less than an increase seen in another study of people who had completed religious quests.

"Just yesterday, I've been in party and one guy told story of his friend who committed suicide after such trip."

unpleasant theory: maybe in some cases it is even better, that a person just kills himself after a drug-triggered insight - instead of years of drowning everybody around them into their black hole - and still suicide in the end. (or worse, go amok)

But sure, I am not saying at all, that this was the case in your story. What I know is, that Psychedelics are no miracles. The "insights" you get, might be also totally wrong and misleading.

I see Drugs as "tools" for the mind. You can use them right, or wrong.

The main insight is more likely that people like you exist, with your immature attitude/ridiculous theory on suicide. I find your kind to be subtly destructive and all too common.

Take care and aloha.

Those are very good arguments you provide ...

It is probably pointless, but to try more arguments, I think the same about you " I find your kind to be subtly destructive and all too common"

The illusionary theory, that every human must be saved at all costs. Only that in reality "by all costs" means very often, that not only one goes down, but also many people around them.

I have seen it too often. And in the end, those persons might indeed still breathe, but more like zombies and not really alive .

Letting go can be less cruel in the bigger picture.

Do you actually have experience with counterculture? Primal instincts based around the idea of dominance prevail as often do in any social hierarchy, and the musings about some type of altruistism surrounding suicide by the commenter to whom I replied reflect this reality.

In short, the counterculture movement is plenty infiltrated with immature and often sociopathic mentalities that heartlessly harass sensitive folks who are at their most vulnerable under the influence of psychedelics. This is rarely discussed but is so prevalent, particularly since the age of exposure aligns with immature phases, adolesence in particular.

In laymen’s terms, it’s a sport to “fuck with” someone who has a “reaction”. Perhaps it’s the suicide victim realizing that, instead of this idea that they are a defective burden saving society from their own black hole via premature self termination, that they are escaping unwanted membership of a vastly primitive species. I assure you, the mentality of the suicidal is quite the opposite of “conventional wisdom” about being a burden, at least in some cases.

Dude.

You told me I am imature, because I proposed the theory, that in some(!) cases, it might be better for a suicidal person to just kill himself, instead of everyone around them as well. (I know cases, where persons literally think about the latter, those I referenced)

So what has that to do with psychopaths who take advantage of sensitive persons and possible drive them to death?!?

Not at all related for the sake of the original argument.

But by now I know your type of person well, self-declared enlighted ... high above the " primitive species" below. But unhappy, because the primitive people have the power and therefore drive the enlightened down out of jealously. Yeah, yeah, I know.

Well in that case, what do you think about a very low specimen who is so down, that he hinks about either killing himself, or other's? Save him under all costs and risk him later still killing "enlightened" people? Or accept him choosing to go on his own, now? Why do you care anyway, he's just from a "low species"...

You come across as suggesting to someone they should self-terminate because it's better that way.

In "some" cases I do believe, it is the better way.

Not at all in all cases, nor in your case.