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Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by Finnucane on Friday September 22, 2017 @07:27PM (#15316863)
Is Bitcoin actually a medium of exchange? It seems to be functioning more as an investment to be hoarded rather than spent.
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by aviv on Friday September 22, 2017 @09:04PM (#15317391)
Right, the same people telling you it's going to $100K are the ones saying this is a digital currency that should be spent. Well, I sure ain't about to spend $100K to buy 2 MacBook Pros.
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by AgentME on Friday September 22, 2017 @11:48PM (#15317988)
Even if you think Bitcoin is going to $highNumber, then using Bitcoin to make purchases isn't any more painful than using dollars: the dollars could have been spent on purchasing more bitcoin instead of the other purchase.
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by wahern on Monday September 25, 2017 @05:40PM (#15334413)
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by rblatz on Saturday September 23, 2017 @01:53AM (#15318374)
And that’s why the fed ensures we have a mildly inflationary currency. If it deflated spending would drop, cutting the velocity of money, and cutting out economic growth.
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by 0x445442 on Saturday September 23, 2017 @08:19AM (#15319410)
"If it deflated spending would drop"

That statements not a given. If it were so, people would not use credit cards.

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by rblatz on Saturday September 23, 2017 @11:15PM (#15323115)
That’s interesting, I’ve never thought about credit cards as a sort of deflationary virtual currency.
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by seanot on Saturday September 23, 2017 @08:55AM (#15319524)
You're discounting the technology sector and nearly the entire 19th century.
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by elif on Saturday September 23, 2017 @12:11AM (#15318056)
Those two positions are obviously congruent.

In the scenario where you believe bitcoin will be worth $100,000 and you have $7,000 or 2BTC, you decide to buy a computer for $3,500. If the remainder of your value is in dollars, you will have $3,500 in value. If the remainder of your value is in bitcoin, you will have $100,000.

The depreciating asset you've invested in here is the macbook, not bitcoins.

I have a 1.4 bitcoin T-shirt. I don't regret it one bit.

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by dmichulke on Saturday September 23, 2017 @01:08AM (#15318243)
> I have a 1.4 bitcoin T-shirt.

Is that you?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/04/article-2257209-16...

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by baddox on Saturday September 23, 2017 @12:13AM (#15318068)
Those two groups may have overlap, but they’re not identical groups.
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by ballenf on Friday September 22, 2017 @11:13PM (#15317862)
So, it's gold? I don't know if I've ever seen someone buy a Starbucks with a Kruggerand.

Gold is hoarded and traded much like bitcoin, from what I've seen.

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by jdietrich on Saturday September 23, 2017 @12:52AM (#15318183)
The device you're using to read this comment couldn't function without gold. It's an incredibly useful element. Investment and speculation might have inflated the value of gold, but industrial demand sets a price floor.
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by stinkypete on Saturday September 23, 2017 @02:12AM (#15318423)
Si is also incredibly useful but requires industrial processing to turn into something useful from an industrial standpoint.

Au is indeed useful, but not so much as nearly indicated by its current pricing. There's a _long_ history of human predilection for gold-as-a-magical-substance versus gold-as-an-industrially-useful-element.

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by dredmorbius on Saturday September 23, 2017 @12:08PM (#15320320)
Gold has rarely been used in retail transactions. Generally that's been limited to silver, copper, bronze, or even iron coins, or other materials.

Not exclusively, but for the large part.

If you look at historical English prices, prior to the 19th century, the penny was 1/240 a pound, and the farthing ("four-thing" -- one fourth a penny) was 1/960 a pound. Call it 1/1000th.

A labourer's wage might be 20 pound/yr. It's more useful to think of the farthing as roughly equivalent, at least in work-time, to a dollar, and 20 pound as $20,000.

A pound, then, was a lot of money. And even it was (in English currency) silver. Gold were guineas: 1 pound 10 shilling.

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by lojack on Friday September 22, 2017 @08:09PM (#15317135)
Sure, some people treat it as an investment that can be hoarded, but that doesn't change the fact that it can be exchanged. Your narrow definition of medium of exchange sort of excludes any deflationary currency that someone may hold on to as an investment.

It could even be expanded to include inflationary currency in a country where hyperinflation is occurring. People will hold on to USD or some other currency as an investment because it'll be worth significantly more tomorrow than whatever currency the supermarket down the street accepts.

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by Finnucane on Friday September 22, 2017 @10:00PM (#15317604)
By that logic any tradable thing can be a 'medium of exchange'. Sure, people will hold a stable currency when their own is sinking, but deliberately designing a currency for deflation is stupid.
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by lojack on Friday September 22, 2017 @11:34PM (#15317937)
I understand your point, but I'm not sure I agree that being deflationary or being primarily used as an investment precludes it from being used as a medium of exchange.

I do think there are some aspects of bitcoin that limit its use as a medium of exchange (transaction times, current lack of stability), but I don't think its the deflationary part.

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by zdkl on Friday September 22, 2017 @10:48PM (#15317778)
Well in a sense it's quite freudian: you gotta feel the (unrealised value of the) bitcoin leaving you for it to be universally recognised as "having value"
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by 2muchcoffeeman on Friday September 22, 2017 @11:24PM (#15317909)
It could even be expanded to include inflationary currency in a country where hyperinflation is occurring. People will hold on to USD or some other currency as an investment because it'll be worth significantly more tomorrow than whatever currency the supermarket down the street accepts.

This doesn't really feel the same. You might use USD to store value because you know that it's value isn't going to fluctuate like crazy from month to month or year to year. So if you can afford to feed yourself today, you can still feed yourself tomorrow. You're still spending your money.

No one I know with Bitcoin spends it, with the exception of a novelty purchase of beer. And why would you, in 4 years the value of bitcoin increased over 10 fold. You'd be stupid to ever spend it while this trend continues.

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by lojack on Friday September 22, 2017 @11:46PM (#15317980)
> You might use USD to store value because you know that it's value isn't going to fluctuate like crazy from month to month or year to year.

Noted, and I tend to agree with you on that point.

> You'd be stupid to ever spend it while this trend continues.

For sake of argument, assuming you know this trend will continue you'd be stupid to not put all of your money into it. At which point, you'll ultimately need to spend it to get things you need (whether you're spending it on purchasing other currencies, or spending on the actual goods). Unfortunately, we don't know the trend will continue or if it'll reverse or if it'll level off.

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by selectodude on Saturday September 23, 2017 @01:19PM (#15320700)
Except on drugs which is essentially the entire monetary velocity of bitcoin.
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by irln on Saturday September 23, 2017 @12:08AM (#15318043)
A medium of exchange is usually an asset that can be exchanged for any other asset. It's not that bitcoin can't be a medium of exchange, it just isn't one yet.
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by virmundi on Friday September 22, 2017 @08:00PM (#15317065)
I wonder if part of this is due to dust. My understanding is that at these prices you don't really want to split a coin for a $.25. As a result it's poor for micro payments and daily macro payments alike.
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by nostrademons on Friday September 22, 2017 @08:16PM (#15317166)
Dogecoin was created explicitly to have a low value suitable for micropayments & tipping. It hasn't really worked out much better for Dogecoin...interest in it seems to have waned a long time ago.

My bet is that it hasn't caught on as a medium of exchange simply because that's not really a major pain point. Cryptocurrency's competition as payment isn't $USD; it's Visa, Mastercard, Discover, Stripe, Square, and other payment processors. People bitch about these companies, but they usually bitch about them from a concentration-of-power-and-fees standpoint (which Bitcoin doesn't actually solve, once you consider the costs of the commercial Bitcoin exchanges), not a convenience one. When it comes to convenience, whipping out a wallet-sized piece of plastic or your cell phone is a lot better than waiting 12 minutes for a transaction to settle on the blockchain.

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by wavefunction on Friday September 22, 2017 @08:53PM (#15317349)
Dogecoin is for fun. Much block-chain. Wow.

It died off because _some people_ tried to turn it into a real thing for micro transactions, etc.

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by nnfy on Friday September 22, 2017 @08:44PM (#15317300)
I think dogecoin failed to go anywhere at least partly because it was a literal memecoin.

Certainly made it hard for me to take it seriously as a semi-layman at the time.

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by stanleydrew on Friday September 22, 2017 @08:51PM (#15317340)
Interestingly that would seem to further the author's point a bit. You didn't think dogecoin was legitimate because it was named after a meme. So that made you less likely to trust the code/governance?
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by zdkl on Friday September 22, 2017 @10:57PM (#15317811)
> […] it was named after a meme.

> So that made you less likely to trust the code/governance?

Well... yeah! What's your point? That projects deserve trust based on their branding? I'm not convinced until there's peer approval, especially not if it's piggybacking on something "trendy".

I do agree though it's a shame it got subverted from the ultra low value p2p tipping platform it was becoming. Feels like it's just litecoin left as credible alternative in that area.

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by pmuk on Saturday September 23, 2017 @04:11AM (#15318754)
And there are huge energy costs in performing a transaction... 197 KWh @ $0.10 per KWh = nearly $20 of electricity for 1 transaction.
Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by pmuk on Saturday September 23, 2017 @04:01AM (#15318727)
It's not very useful as a medium of exchange right now since it requires 197 KWh of energy to confirm a single transaction!

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

Re:Bitcoin is fiat money, too by mcguire on Saturday September 23, 2017 @06:48PM (#15322206)
Is it true that the number of Bitcoins in existence is limited?