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Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by dookahku on Friday September 22, 2017 @04:17AM (#15310260)
This is anti-advice.

This is like telling depressed people to be happy or victims of violence with PTSD to 'grow a pair' and 'snap out of it'.

This is the kind of simplistic, unhelpful, shaming advice that keeps mental illness taboo.

Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by lkozma on Friday September 22, 2017 @04:29AM (#15310299)
I think you misrepresent the parent post. Suppose you had insomnia. Wouldn't it be a fair suggestion to cut back on coffee and other stimulants first, before trying sleeping pills?
Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by unfamiliar on Friday September 22, 2017 @04:38AM (#15310329)
I think the point is that by the nature of ADHD telling people to "get off the internet" as a solution to the problem would be more akin to telling the insomniac "just stop staying awake all the time!"
Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by beagle3 on Friday September 22, 2017 @04:57AM (#15310400)
Not really. Leaving a phone at home and taking a notebook or book with you while sitting outside is not like "stop staying awake". It will, in fact, get you off the Internet and is unlikely to result in withdrawal symptoms for most people.

Unlike "stop staying awake" which is not actionable.

A book might not be a good suggestion for everyone, and finding the right "off internet thinking environment" is not easy for some, but it's doable for most.

Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by eeZah7Ux on Friday September 22, 2017 @08:18AM (#15311455)
> Unlike "stop staying awake" which is not actionable.

That's the problem: you think "stop staying awake" is not actionable, while "leave your phone at home" is actionable for a person with ADHD.

Again, this is not different than saying "just be happy" to a depressed person. To that person, in that moment, "stop wasting time on the internet" is not actionable just as much, otherwise it would not be a problem in the first place.

Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by lkozma on Friday September 22, 2017 @10:05AM (#15312246)
Going with your examples, I think "leave your phone at home" is more actionable than "stop wasting time on the internet", and both are vastly more actionable than "stop staying awake" and "just be happy".
Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by kazagistar on Friday September 22, 2017 @11:11AM (#15312867)
Right, and his point is that actionability of advice depends on brain configuration. I have no problem lifting my mood, or falling asleep. So those actually seem more actionable to me. However, I have empathy for people whose brains work differently, who struggle with different things, and who might need intense therapy and medication just to stay afloat at these kinds of mental tasks.
Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by OJFord on Friday September 22, 2017 @06:48PM (#15316612)
> you think "stop staying awake" is not actionable, while "leave your phone at home" is actionable for a person with ADHD.

I'm not an insomniac; nor do I have ADHD, as far I know.

I assure you that I cannot action an instruction to 'stop staying awake'. I certainly can 'leave [my] phone at home', and frequently do.

Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by scaryclam on Friday September 22, 2017 @06:49AM (#15310914)
It's more like telling a person with symptoms of depression or PTSD that they should see a therapist to get to the bottom of things rather than just popping pills. In fact, PTSD suffers really should be in therapy instead of on a drug regimen. Many people are wrongly diagnosed with a depressive illness when they have psychological problems better addressed by therapy, so it's actually good advice and can avoid a lifetime of drug dependance that doesn't solve the actual problem.
Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by coldtea on Friday September 22, 2017 @04:53AM (#15310389)
>This is like telling depressed people to be happy or victims of violence with PTSD to 'grow a pair' and 'snap out of it'.

It might go against the "just feed them drugs" mentality, but lots of times it totally works.

They had plenty of "traumatic stress" before the 21st century, in all parts of the world -- huge wars, conflicts, disasters, even genocide. But those involved (like older friends and relatives that have survived bombings and wars and dictatorship) also could grow a pair and snap out of it, and even thrive afterwards. I don't believe they had a different DNA or mental wiring back then.

  At an FDA hearing on March 23, 2006, I testified: “Saying any 
  psychiatric diagnosis ‘is a brain-based problem and that the medications 
  are normalizing function’ is an anti-scientific, pro-drug lie” [ 14]. 
  Yet this has become standard practice throughout medicine, for example,   at the American Psychiatric Association [ 15], American Medical 
  Association [ 16], American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, 
  American Academy of Pediatrics, Child Neurology Society, American 
  Academy of Family Physicians [ 17], FDA [ 13], and virtually all US 
  government health-care agencies.

  Journal articles [ 6], press releases, ads [ 18], drug inserts, and 
  research informed consent documents say, or infer, that psychological 
  diagnoses are abnormalities/diseases. All patients and research 
  participants with psychological problems are led to believe they have an 
  abnormality/disease, biasing them in favor of medical interventions, and 
  against nonmedical interventions (e.g., love, will power, or talk 
  therapy), which presume, as is the case, that the individual is 
  physically and medically normal and without need of a 
  medical/pharmaceutical intervention.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1518691/

  Currently, depression is not diagnosed via objective chemical
  tests, nor is treatment guided by any such tests. If depression did
  result primarily from a known chemical imbalance, such tests
  would likely be available and in widespread use, and depression
  would be easily and quickly resolved for most patients.

  Luckily, a number of effective interventions are available for
  treating depression. Such interventions include a variety of 
  pharmacological as well as nonpharmacological approaches, sometimes
  used alone and sometimes in combination with one another
http://www.brown.uk.com/brownlibrary/france.pdf
Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by taway_1212 on Friday September 22, 2017 @07:25AM (#15311116)
> They had plenty of "traumatic stress" before the 21st century, in all parts of the world -- huge wars, conflicts, disasters, even genocide. But those involved (like older friends and relatives that have survived bombings and wars and dictatorship) also could grow a pair and snap out of it, and even thrive afterwards.

To the contrary, I think the past generations of my family who have survived WW2 and Stalinism were, till the end of their days, heavily impaired by it. They "snapped out of it" to the degree that was required for not starving, but I would not say they had developed nearly up to their full potential.

Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by dahauns on Friday September 22, 2017 @08:06AM (#15311377)
As someone growing up in rural Austria in the 80s, when lots of grandfathers had been Wermacht soldiers, I firmly agree.

In hindsight, it was painfully obvious with so many of them. And the number of functional alcoholics (with often a rather loose definition of "functional") was huge.

Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by coldtea on Friday September 22, 2017 @08:06AM (#15311376)
Dunno, we have had huge WWII impact, dictatorship, civil war, and other such things in my parts, and they didn't impact much the generations involved in everyday life. I know tons of people that survived those events. Speaking to friends and relatives it was just things that happened. So it goes, etc.
Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by taway_1212 on Friday September 22, 2017 @08:25AM (#15311497)
Maybe they were more lucky. In case of my grandparents, they were children whose parents were executed by Nazis or sent to Auschwitz to die, or who themselves were sent, as teenagers, to a Stalinist prison.
Re:How I got to 200 productive hours a month by coldtea on Friday September 22, 2017 @03:07PM (#15314861)
Yes, both kinds of concentration camps are very extreme experiences.

I'm talking more general war and civil war scenarios (e.g. having your city bombed, being in a war, having family members die in such scenarios, etc -- which have been common in many places in the developing world (and Europe).

But the constant terror of a concentration camp for months or years on end is another thing.