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Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by legulere on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:20PM (#15262652)
Bitcoin is becoming solely a speculation object with great negative effects on the environment.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by 127 on Saturday September 16, 2017 @01:27AM (#15263060)
It's not as much about Bitcoin as it's about capitalism. If you can make profit on using electricity, you will use it. If you can make a profit on building coal power plants, you will build them. Bitcoin is just yet another thing in the pile of products where externalized costs are not included in the price.

The greater problem is how we will solve global capitalism in relation to environmental destruction. Nation states that do not have any moral considerations have a competitive edge over those that do.

Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by agorabinary on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:34PM (#15262692)
Clearly, you are oblivious or willfully ignorant of the massive amount of innovative development occurring in the space.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by nosuchthing on Saturday September 16, 2017 @12:10AM (#15262815)
Can you name any services currently available and useful for anything other than speculation?
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by thewelder on Saturday September 16, 2017 @12:28AM (#15262872)
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by jon_richards on Saturday September 16, 2017 @01:11AM (#15263005)
Fold let's you buy from common stores like Starbucks with bitcoin. I haven't actually used it, but I hear it's good.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by foepys on Saturday September 16, 2017 @01:56AM (#15263139)
Nobody will use anything that includes $3-5 transaction fees to buy something unless it's over $500. That you haven't used it is prototypical. Nobody has used it because traditional alternatives like Visa, Mastercard, or cash are better.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by jon_richards on Saturday September 16, 2017 @03:19AM (#15263383)
I doubt it happens directly on the blockchain, but there are plenty of things built on top of bitcoin that make that work. Its like arguing that no one uses bank accounts for small purchases because wire transfers are too annoying.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by nosuchthing on Saturday September 16, 2017 @04:19AM (#15263564)
How does the payment you're describing work, if it's not on the blockchain?
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by jon_richards on Saturday September 16, 2017 @06:16AM (#15263925)
I'd imagine it uses a lightning network or something.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by rtpg on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:38PM (#15262704)
Serious Q: what are some specific innovations you have seen and are not necessarily well known?
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by BoiledCabbage on Saturday September 16, 2017 @02:09AM (#15263174)
You would think after making a comment like this you would have some constructive examples to provide.

Can you complete your comment?

Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by companyhen on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:31PM (#15262684)
Care to explain the negative effects? Worse than the fraud JP Morgan committed?
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by acomjean on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:44PM (#15262726)
I haven't studied it, but the general compaint seems to be it takes a fair amount of power to run the computers to generate coins, validate transactions. (enough to power over 1,000,000 american homes, by some accounts[1]) China has some of there mines near hydropower (the cheapest power source).

[1] https://blockgeeks.com/bitcoins-energy-consumption/

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/qkvxk3/chinas-big...

https://qz.com/1026605/photos-chinas-bitcoin-mines-and-miner...

Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by matthuggins on Saturday September 16, 2017 @12:54AM (#15262953)
You should check out NEO.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by zipwitch on Saturday September 16, 2017 @12:55PM (#15265451)
Near Earth Orbit?

How feasible is launching a constellation of bitcoin-mining microsats that will run on solar power?

Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by rtpg on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:39PM (#15262706)
Probably a reference to the massive amount of energy (especially relative to the twins) of all the CPU cycles going into mining
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by beambot on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:43PM (#15262722)
Worse than mining for gold? We have ample stockpiles above ground...
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by patrickg_zill on Saturday September 16, 2017 @03:01PM (#15266093)
No one cares about your narrow focus... bitcoin mining, just as with gold mining a century ago, drives other technological developments which end up benefiting everyone.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by kneel on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:31PM (#15262683)
Also the currency of choice in the billion dollar drug market.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by espitia on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:39PM (#15262708)
What currency is not being used in the drug market?

I would love to have a rational debate and hear objective arguments agaisnt bitcoin vs gold that can be applied uniquely to bitcoin or rather that dont apply to both.

Scarcity? No intrinsic value? Speculative? Thefts? Used in illicit ways?

All these apply to both gold and bitcoin.

"Gold has been historically valuable to humans". So have many other rocks, flowers, spices, etc.

I am geniuenly interested in seeing why Bitcoin should fail as being a store of value.

Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by taywrobel on Saturday September 16, 2017 @01:13AM (#15263013)
> I am geniuenly interested in seeing why Bitcoin should fail as being a store of value.

Oh, it's a great store of value. But that doesn't make it a good currency. Currencies aren't intended to store value, they're intended to facilitate the transfer of value. Assets (be it physical such as property, governmental such as bonds, or corporate such as stocks) are what is intended to store value.

In general, you want a currency to suffer from inflation and decrease in value over time. While this may seem counter-intuitive to having a healthy currency, it's the best thing for the economy, as it encourages the currency to continually be in circulation, and whatever cannot be readily spent to be invested into assets or placed into a bank, which then goes and loans it out to others who need it, stimulating the economy.

Gold has never been easy to use as currency. It needs to be weighed, and now its value is so high that in order to buy everyday items, you'd be dealing in almost immeasurably small slivers of gold. So instead people used it as an asset; They would buy it speculatively and watch the price rise as scarcity increased. As more people bought it, the scarcity increased even more quickly, leading to effectively a deflationary spiral.

What do you think will happen as we get closer to the 21 million Bitcoin limit? It'll be the same deal. Everyone will hold onto their BTC because it's scarce, and increased scarcity increases value, and before long, the entire BTC economy grinds to a halt.

"But this has never happened with gold!" I hear you say. Let me point you to the Gold Reserve Act of 1934, where the government basically said "Naw, dawgs, give us that gold back. We gotta get this economy moving again.", and made most private possession of gold illegal, in order to help get America out of the great depression.

Bitcoin is an amazingly cool concept. Bitcoin is an awesome work of technology. Bitcoin is not a currency.

Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by nosuchthing on Saturday September 16, 2017 @04:35AM (#15263613)

  BTC because it's scarce
BTC isn't really scarce, there's quiet a few newer iterations like Litecoin, Monereo, Ethereum, Dogecoin etc..

It's also worth noting the supply was minted mainly by miners doing very low difficulty work early on, using basic home computers.

Satoshi made an intensional design choice to gain control of the supply for a very low cost, exploiting late adopters as bag holders.

The incentive system for bitcoin mining might of anticipated gaining popularity as time passes and increasing the reward as the network grows, but the system was designed completely opposite of that, at the expense of the masses for the benefit of sending the supply to the mining nodes operating in the first few months.

https://www.welivesecurity.com/wp-content/media_files/total_...

Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by espitia on Saturday September 16, 2017 @02:39AM (#15263281)
Ditto. Maybe you read my comment wrong but I am arguing for a store of value - not a currency. And I am asking why it should fail as a store of value because I don't see how gold has any advantage over it.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by taywrobel on Saturday September 16, 2017 @02:51AM (#15263307)
Sorry, I guess I conflated it with your initial statement of "What currency is not being used in the drug market?".

The first difference to come to mind is that if you forget the password to your gold, the gold still exists. If you forget the password to your wallet, your bitcoin is pretty much unsalvageable. And assets that are so easy to destroy aren't particularly stable. And yes, most wallets have all sorts of backup capabilities and safety features, but in the end it's used by humans and humans are stupid [citation needed].

Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by spiorf on Saturday September 16, 2017 @04:16AM (#15263552)
Being your own bank comes with some responsibility.

Gold can be stolen, gold can be lost. You can hide your gold in the woods, and forget the location.

Also paper money can rot and can burn.

If i memorize my bitcoin seed, my brain is in fact my bank, and if I trust some external entity more than my own brain, bitcoin is not for me.

Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by Fjolsvith on Saturday September 16, 2017 @12:55PM (#15265454)
There will rise a profession where they forensically reconstruct lost wallets to recover those assets.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by meri_dian on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:48PM (#15262742)
How are you going to anonymously trade gold online? Bitcoin gives the anonymity that criminals need.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by espitia on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:55PM (#15262768)
Gold mines are connected to genocide, funding wars and illegal trade.

Is my logic wrong in pointing out a 'flaw' in gold when someone else points out a 'flaw' in bitcoin?

I think criminals will use any tool in ways that they were not meant to be used. This does not make the tool/subject at hand the culprit.

Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by patrickg_zill on Saturday September 16, 2017 @03:02PM (#15266105)
The Federal Reserve is connected to genocide, funding wars, and illegal trade. So what is your point?
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by espitia on Friday September 22, 2017 @10:16AM (#15312349)
That pointing out an 'issue' that is common in gold/fiat/crytpo is not a great argument against crypto.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by colejohnson66 on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:50PM (#15262750)
So does cash. Should we ban paper money too?
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by d4l3k on Saturday September 16, 2017 @12:04AM (#15262801)
That appears to be the route India is taking.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by dingo_bat on Saturday September 16, 2017 @01:14AM (#15263022)
Wow what bullshit. India invalidated a set of currency notes and immediately replaced it with new ones. Is that "banning paper money"? If a government mandates that all petrol cars must be replaced with electric by 2025, does that mean they have "banned cars"?
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by companyhen on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:32PM (#15262685)
Isn't fiat the largest drug currency by far? I assume in crypto that would be Monero or some other privacy focused coin nowadays.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by lern_too_spel on Saturday September 16, 2017 @01:06AM (#15262993)
The difference is that it is likely that a majority of Bitcoin transactions for goods and services are for drugs, ransoms, and other illegal purposes because it is wildly inefficient to use as a payment system for legitimate transactions, due to high transaction fees, long confirmation times, and low merchant acceptance. The vast majority of transactions in US dollars, on the other hand, are legitimate.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by kneel on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:34PM (#15262690)
Shapeshift to Monero before or after! Doesn't really matter.

Try buying cocaine from your local neighborhood cartel, contrast that to receiving shipments in the mail. World of difference as far as safety/security.

Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by kobeya on Saturday September 16, 2017 @02:20AM (#15263213)
USD is the currency of choice in the drug market.
Re:Looks like JP Morgan got caught buying Bitcoin today (use... by nwah1 on Friday September 15, 2017 @11:34PM (#15262695)
It started out that way, too.