> Debt, the first 5,000 years - for understanding money and finance from the ground up

Having picked this a few weeks ago, I am finding it hard to finish because of the ponderous writing. I admit that first few chapters were a revelation, but the cultural verbosity regarding everything becomes wearing quickly. "The Ascent of Money" is much better primer on the evolution of financial system.

A good summary of the key arguments in the book can be found in this programme that aired on BBC, hosted by David Graeber himself (the author of the book)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05447pc

I started "The Ascent of Money" and was very happy with the first half or so - then I set it aside for a few years and worked for a hedge fund. When I picked the book up again I couldn't stand how basic, boring, and mistaken the second half was. I wish I could follow your example and suggest a better book :)

enlighten us - what did you learn?

fair question, but I don't recall the specifics that disappointed me. It's totally possible that the first half of the book was just much better than the second, and it wasn't anything about my thinking that was responsible. it wasn't a controlled experiment :)

ok - paged through the book a bit again and the main thing is that the early stuff was totally new to me (18th century Dutch bonds!) - and the latter is a well-researched rogue's gallery of recent, well-known failures (Enron, Japan's lost decade(s), the recent financial crisis (the book was published in 2008) ). Overall there is a focus on failure and a bunch of editorializing that didn't impress me on the recent stuff and casts doubt on the objectivity of the more distant historical parts.

edit: uh - i didn't answer your question. i learned that, holy-crap, it's hard to attribute cause to effect and very very easy to fool yourself. The market is not efficient - but it's usually close enough that correcting doesn't pay that much.

I am... shocked as this 80% is is my list for the very same reasons. Surely you've enjoyed Gödel, Escher, Bach by Douglas Hofstadter as much as I have, if not (yet), this is my thank you to you.

To anyone who read GED in the past, more than a few years ago I mean, I highly recommed reading it again. Your updated self will appreciate its beauty even more.

Yes. I found this to be true in general, and not just with books but also film, music and even programming languages.

GEB* :)

I have not but I absolutely will

Great to see my favorites here ...

> Snowball (Warren Buffet), Andrew Carnegie and Rockefeller biographies - for understanding the mental mindset to win in business (it's not what you think)

> Hackers and painters - for understanding startups and how/why they work

> Essentialism, the disciplined pursuit of less and Walden - for understanding how "stuff" gets in the way of happiness

> Debt, the first 5,000 years

It's often cited on HN, but I've found it very dense and difficult to read.

I agree 100%. The beginning was good, gave many unconventional views of what is the essence of debt and money, especially in other cultures and periods in history. But in the middle of the book, the author started rambling about the history of everything with a loose connection to money or debt, with no real point to be made. I gave up reading somewhere around there.

Probably depends on the kind of stuff you're used to reading, but I thought it was relatively light and lively, haha.

My favorite part was the author's knack for writing a paragraph that caused me to think of several critical questions or potential holes, then immediately follow it up with a few paragraphs addressing most or all of those questions and plugging the holes.

I've had the audiobook version recommended for this exact reason - easier to listen to than to read :)

I've heard exactly this about the book, audio book > text

It is dense and difficult to read, I agree. But it's also very insightful, and hence recommended. I agree with the other comment that listening to difficult books is generally easier than reading.

The Selfish Gene is a great book but human behavior is hardly its main topic.

Yup, that's just the mental model I gleaned from it

Selfish genes can result in completely altruistic and sacrificial behavior in an individual.

For Andrew Carnegie and Rockefeller, which biographies do you recommend?

Not the OP, but Ron Chernow's Titan is a phenomenal chronicle of Rockefeller.

Yes. And the Carnegie biography by Nasaw is long but very good.

Can you please list which biographies of Carnegie and Rockefeller you recommend ?

For Rockefeller, there is Ron Chernow's.

There is also this book : The Tycoons: How Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller, Jay Gould, and J. P. Morgan Invented the American Supereconomy Reprint Edition, Kindle Edition by Charles R. Morris

Links: https://www.amazon.com/Titan-Life-John-Rockefeller-Sr-ebook/...

https://www.amazon.com/Andrew-Carnegie-David-Nasaw-ebook/dp/...

https://www.amazon.com/Tycoons-Carnegie-Rockefeller-Invented...

The Tycoons is great!

Is the Carnegie one his autobiography?

No, biography by Nasaw

>Debt, the first 5,000 years - for understanding money and finance from the ground up

For me it's nice to see this is being recommended even outside social anarchist/Communist circles.

Interesting, I see it most often in anarcho-capitalist circles

That's very strange for me to hear, considering the position of the author himself and some of the views espoused in the book. Though I shouldn't be saying that books ought to be restricted to certain ideological followers. As a Communist myself I have my own favourites but I doubt they'd be so useful to anyone here.

I'm definitely pro-capitalism personally, but I think a collection of books that offer a convincing argument towards another perspective would be well received in the HN community. You should consider posting some.

I have to agree with this. I have strong opinions about economic and political systems, but I also recognize these are some of the most contentious questions and viewpoints out there.

In light of that, a thoughtful and reasonable look at alternatives is the best way to reduce some of that contention.

The Progressive Assault on Laissez-Faire by Barbara Fried.

It's more pragmatic, aka not Marx/theory but it has some good arguments against our current econ/legal framework.