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Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by binthere on Thursday August 31, 2017 @03:51PM (#15143314)
Let's do a thought experiment: Imagine if a company had enough power to inject money into all of the major media outlets, to the point where they depend on this company to stay alive. Now, if this company threatens to pull the money out if the media outlet says anything that goes against it, the company will effectively have control over the opinions of all major media channels. This is obviously not acceptable in a society that considers itself "free speech". It's free from legal consequences but when you shut opinions down due to "other consequences" you end up with the same result. A muted society.
Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by noir_lord on Thursday August 31, 2017 @03:56PM (#15143358)
The funny thing there is we worry about someone having enough money to exert soft power on the media while allowing Murdoch to control a huge chunk of the media market in the UK (and US...).

He has far more control of the media than any single company could hope to buy indirectly (and it'd be cheaper to just buy it directly at that point I think).

Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by walshemj on Thursday August 31, 2017 @04:30PM (#15143656)
Why do you think Jeff Bezos brought the Washington Post - he saw how Rupert Murdoch works.

Google should have brought the independent when it was up for sale cheap

Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by driverdan on Friday September 01, 2017 @12:06AM (#15146044)
And look at how he's made it much worse. Clickbait headlines, political pandering. They have some good content but I'm so sick of the bad stuff I go elsewhere.
Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by emmelaich on Thursday August 31, 2017 @07:15PM (#15144814)
And Clinton's top financial backer bought "The Onion".

Shrug. It's got to be owned by someone.

Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by frogpelt on Thursday August 31, 2017 @05:21PM (#15144044)
I don't see your point.

Somebody is going to own the media. It just so happens that Murdoch started some media outlets.

It's much better than the media being state-run.

Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by Clubber on Thursday August 31, 2017 @08:17PM (#15145161)
The difference between now and say 30 years ago is many media companies were independently owned, now, like food in supermarkets, there are a few conglomerates that own all the media companies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_conglomerate

If you go to the local level, John Oliver did a segment on Sinclair Broadcast Group that owns a bunch of local news stations and pushes political propaganda to them.

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/07/john-oliver-local-news-cons...

The point being is you have all our media digestible content, particularly news, controlled by a handful of corporations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexstar_Media_Group

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group

Sinclair, the one Oliver mentions, covers 40% of US households and is only the second largest next to Nexstar.

Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by frogpelt on Thursday August 31, 2017 @10:44PM (#15145727)
And John Oliver is owned by Time Warner/Turner Broadcasting.

You don't think Oliver is above propaganda do you?

Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by Clubber on Friday September 01, 2017 @12:09AM (#15146055)
No, he has an agenda as well. His position is a little less influenced now though because HBO's business model doesn't involve advertisements. I'm sure he doesn't bite the hand that feeds him either.
Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by nebabyte on Thursday August 31, 2017 @06:54PM (#15144671)
>Somebody is going to own the media

Disagree. Why do you think anyone "owning the media" would be a giood idea, let alone an acceptable one.

Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by frogpelt on Thursday August 31, 2017 @10:45PM (#15145733)
I didn't say anything about a good idea.

I definitely think it's better for individuals and regulated corporations to own it than for the media to be state-run.

Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by tahabi on Thursday August 31, 2017 @07:36PM (#15144933)
And your proposed alternative is?
Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by lowbloodsugar on Thursday August 31, 2017 @08:14PM (#15145140)
Lots of people own lots of media.
Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by frogpelt on Thursday August 31, 2017 @10:46PM (#15145736)
Awesome. You have your wish. Surf around.
Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by jeffdavis on Thursday August 31, 2017 @03:58PM (#15143371)
You can make a similar argument about land: if one person owns all of the land, the rest of the people won't be very free even if the laws are the same.

But neither argument is very convincing. There's a lot of cheap land, and there are a lot of cheap ways to publish your opinions widely.

Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by arkades on Thursday August 31, 2017 @05:51PM (#15144272)
As long as you don't piss off cloudflare.
Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by AmIFirstToThink on Friday September 01, 2017 @12:42PM (#15150102)
Well, the same mentality spills over from Think Tanks to regular people on YouTube.

On YouTube, if your account is suspended, you are severed from your audience that you worked hard to build.

Sure, you can find cheap/free land, but don't you think you would feel that someone stole your work, robbed you of the fruits of your labor, if the land you toiled for years to make fertile is taken away from you?

This think tank situation is tip of the iceberg of what Google is doing in terms of censorship (suspensions/terminations/demonetization) on their platforms.

Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by dragonwriter on Friday September 01, 2017 @01:01PM (#15150283)
> Sure, you can find cheap/free land, but don't you think you would feel that someone stole your work, robbed you of the fruits of your labor, if the land you toiled for years to make fertile is taken away from you?

If I voluntarily chose to took away on land owned by someone else under express terms that allowed it to be taken away arbitrarily, I’d kind of expect that risk, and wouldn't view it as theft.

There's a reason plenty of people making a living selling video content use YouTube to distribute promotional material but some other mechanism to monetize the content.

Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by AmIFirstToThink on Friday September 01, 2017 @02:54PM (#15151441)
Let's say the customers, that you sold your produce to, know that you sell at your farm: the YouTube channel.

You may be willing to toil the earth at new location, but not having those same customers who want to buy from you at new location, is the biggest loss, more so than the land.

The land owner, didn't mind what you were doing, it's even legal what you were doing, but then one fine day the landowner dated a girl who didn't like that you cultivated onions, she hates onions, she convinced the landowner to get rid of you. And the landowner owns 70% of the land in your country and 90% of the produce buyers are also residing on the same lands. Going to new land is much much unfair proposition. At these scales the legal system, which still exists and has power, should step in an break apart the land owner or impose rules which forces him to play fair.

Anti-trust laws exist for this very reason. Break up Google.

Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by danschumann on Thursday August 31, 2017 @03:53PM (#15143336)
Like that law that says you can't own more than x radio stations? But what if you don't "own" them, just fund them. I think we need to stretch the legal definition of ownership to influence.
Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by bfred_it on Friday September 01, 2017 @03:02AM (#15146697)
Isn't that what happened to Fox News (although indirectly)?

    Fox criticized Trump
    Trump said Fox sucks
    Viewership went down  
    "Oops, Trump is great"  
    Money are back in.

This according to Vox, anyway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYMIgnw2FPU
Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by yeukhon on Thursday August 31, 2017 @04:24PM (#15143612)
This is how media and entertainment already bended to clients. Pull advertisements or sponsorship = lost revenue. A large parent corporation (e.g Verizon) can do this. Whether this is wise to lose coverage is another assessment.
Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by Shivetya on Thursday August 31, 2017 @06:27PM (#15144507)
we don't need a thought experiment, Google has just been shown to have demanded a site to take down an article they did not the author of. they do this by withdrawing adsense income and with a dominant position they can shape the content of the web. while initially at the behest of their corporate needs its easy to see how it will become co-opted by politicians
Re:Criticizing Google got me fired by belovedeagle on Thursday August 31, 2017 @10:27PM (#15145679)
> This is obviously not acceptable in a society that considers itself "free speech". It's free from legal consequences but when you shut opinions down due to "other consequences" you end up with the same result.

Which is exactly why the principle of free speech (as opposed to "the first amendment to the US Constitution") doesn't just apply to legal consequences, and free speech absolutely does require freedom from some consequences.