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Re:Reddit needs help by jedberg on Friday July 09, 2010 @08:12PM (#1502677)
Thanks for the suggestions. Some we have tried, others we would like to, and some are totally new.

The big problem is that we spend most of our time just keeping the site up and don't have time to focus on these ideas, and Conde is unwilling to invest.

We're hoping the reddit gold money gives us the flexibility to bring in the talent we need to make some of those ideas happen.

Re:Reddit needs help by il on Friday July 09, 2010 @10:26PM (#1502882)
I've had experience successfully monetizing all sorts of low-quality traffic, and I can tell you that it's possible to get decent CPM from any type of users, even users like redditors who don't click on ads as much. You should be able to easily pull at least $2 CPM from general/frontpage reddit traffic, and probably closer to $10 CPM from specific subreddits. At 280M pageviews, that's over $500K a month in revenue you're missing out on.

If I had to monetize reddit right now, I would throw up some CPM ads from a premium display network, and then begin aggressively going after big brand advertisers and media buyers. This might mean spending money and hiring at least one ad sales person- but the investment will recoup itself many times over when media buys from big brands start coming in.

Right now, reddit is doing a TERRIBLE job of managing ad inventory, particularly remnant inventory. It also doesn't look easy for advertisers to place ads on reddit. I see a contact form for more information about advertising, but where is your media kit? User demographics? Not all ads are bad, only untargeted ones are. Why aren't there ads for Newegg, or Snorg tees, or collegehumor, etc on reddit? You're in a position to demand premium CPM from advertisers and you're squandering the opportunity.

Right now the ad I see on the front page is "advertise on reddit". This is a terribly wasteful use of remnant impressions, as 99% of your users won't be interested in buying ads, and there is no reason to show them this ad. It will take a few minutes to fill that remnant inventory with a reputable brand ad from a display network.

I understand that you don't want to piss off your users with ads, but Digg manages to generate revenue with strategically placed banner ads without any outcry from users.

I think this problem isn't unique to reddit- it seems like a lot of startups run exclusively by engineers have trouble monetizing intelligently, even when they get significant traffic.

My email is my profile if you want to chat about this further, I can send some links to the kinds of offers redditors might respond to or help you reach out to media buyers who might be interested in doing large buys on sites like reddit.

Re:Reddit needs help by staunch on Saturday July 10, 2010 @12:45AM (#1503065)
For another perspective from someone with experience: I'd say $500k is about 2-3x times higher than what's reasonable to expect, without a really good direct sales.
Re:Reddit needs help by il on Saturday July 10, 2010 @01:16PM (#1503975)
You don't think throwing up a 300x250 banner on the front page from somewhere like RightMedia could get a premium site like reddit $2 CPM? I bet even low traffic quality sites like icanhazcheesburger or cracked are getting more than $2 CPM.

By the way, reddit can really learn from Demand Media sites like Cracked, who are very very good at monetizing the same type of low quality social media traffic.

Re:Reddit needs help by megablahblah on Saturday July 10, 2010 @04:36AM (#1503365)
It's because they don't know shit about advertising. Take a look at their "sponsored link" system. It's impossible for an advertiser to predict what impressions or click-throughs they will get for their ad spend.
Re:Reddit needs help by ig1 on Saturday July 10, 2010 @11:57AM (#1503831)
While I wouldn't have put it as crudely as megablahblah he has a point, the unusual ad pricing structure probably puts off quite a few potential ad buyers.
Re:Reddit needs help by code_duck on Saturday July 10, 2010 @01:40PM (#1504024)
You appear to be claiming to know more than 'shit'. A such, your suggestions are undoubtedly welcome.
Re:Reddit needs help by megablahblah on Saturday July 10, 2010 @02:43PM (#1504132)
Sorry for the tone, but I explained this to them in one of their Reddit announcement posts about their sponsored links, and their response was such that they had no concept of how advertising worked and acted like I was the one that was wrong. Now a few months later, they're begging their users for donations.

il lays out exactly what they need to do, so there isn't much else to suggest. Simply set up some ad placements on the site and get set up as a publisher with the ad network of their choice. The network does all the sales. (Edit: Later on, they can get into do their own direct sales, sponsorships, etc.) They actually were signed up as a publisher for an ad network for a while, I think, because I remember some ad taking over the screen and everyone freaking out. Maybe that scared them away from the idea because they couldn't control the ad types, I don't know.

I don't know what their mobile numbers are, but they need to get set up as a publisher with a mobile ad network too, such as Ad Mob, Millennial or Quattro.

And since they don't know how anything works, they need to get a few thousand dollars and hire a consultant to explain it all to them. I know they are sensitive about pissing off users, but I suspect that their conversations with Conde Nast and any ad network have ended up in frustrated conversations that go nowhere because they don't understand each other. They need a marketing consultant that understands both worlds to bridge the communication gap. Yes, I'm available.

Re:Reddit needs help by code_duck on Saturday July 10, 2010 @04:29PM (#1504287)
Great tips. You're right, they do need someone besides engineers thinking about this.
Re:Reddit needs help by earl on Sunday July 11, 2010 @05:36PM (#1506183)
I'm dubious. I don't use reddit, but I just skimmed the site. You're totally right, reddit has done a shit job allowing people to advertise. That being said, I have some experience with monetization, and forum traffic, dominated as it is by page refreshes, monetizes like shit. For starters, pv per user is way higher than almost any other type of site. All display advertisers cut individual users off pretty quickly -- IME often under 3 pv per day -- after which you're purely displaying remnant inventory at $.1 to $.3 ecpm.

That said, they should immediately experiment w/ adsense, pubcenter, ideas ala stack overflow of embedding amazon referrals onto all books (not at all obnoxious IME), and some of the better display advertisers. Most of these are free and come with basically no commitment so why not. Also, they should embed quantcast's tracking pixel to get some idea about their demographics in a much cheaper fashion than comscore (NB: this could be misconstrued as an advertisement but I think it's good advice.)

Re:Reddit needs help by ww520 on Friday July 09, 2010 @10:28PM (#1502886)
The way to approach Conde is to present a concrete business plan for monetization and ask separate budget for it. What you have in place now is operational budget, just to keep the site up. If you ask them for more money to expand server capacity to support more page view, they will roll their eyes saying, great, sinking more good money into the operation hole. Business people see operation cost as something to cut, unless it brings in additional revenue.

Tell them your priority has shifted from gaining market share (page views) to bigger margin (profit=revenue-cost). Business people like increasing margin. And tell them you need to do a number of experiments to figure out what work, which cost additional money. Tell them there are two options: 1. give a new budget for monetization while keeping the existing operational budget, which is already thin in keeping the current site SLA. 2. Cut the operational budget in half, reduce site SLA, and divert the other half to monetization. Reducing SLA means having less servers, less operational staff, slower site, more crash, less visitors coming in, and some unpopular moves to increase conversion. But that's ok since as part of the plan you've stopped seeking for market share.

Be bold and ask more for a new budget. Say you need 20 more racks initially, 9 sales, 2 marketing, 2 biz dev, 4 more engr, and 3 managers. And need 20 more backend servers for the new initiative; dealing with merchants aren't cheap. You need the sales guys to sign up merchants, the marketing guys to figure out what work and manage ad campaigns, the biz dev guys to recruit big merchants like Dell or Amazon and managing ad inventory, and the engineers to build up the merchant facing infrastructure.

Excite them by painting huge upside monetization potential, which is true. Targeted CPC can be very lucrative, like minting money. Online merchants typically will budget 10%-15% on marketing, which is what pays CPC. Think how big the online ecommerce is and take 10% of that. That's why those merchant specific subreddits, deal/coupon, whatnot are so important because the redditers clicking out from those links are very qualified leads for the merchants who are willing to pay dear money for them.

If Conde is still unwilling to invest, then that's just life. Stop investing in increasing operational capacity. Accept the fact that site will run slower and have less visitors. That's fine. That's the max capacity of the site given the budget. Just enjoy the ride. And wait until Conde sells it to someone else who's willing to take it to the next level.

Re:Reddit needs help by runT1ME on Friday July 09, 2010 @09:06PM (#1502769)
I don't really understand the notion that people hate Ads. People hate irrelevant ads. I'm stoked when an Ad reminds me of a new CD that came out of a band I like, or the latest book that people have been talking about, etc.

I really think targeted Ads are the way to go. Hell, I wouldn't even mind filling out information to help target ads.

Re:Reddit needs help by fauigerzigerk on Sunday July 11, 2010 @11:02AM (#1505559)
I hate ads with animations in them no matter how targeted. If it moves I block it aggressively. If it doesn't move, I even click on it sometimes to support the site.
Re:Reddit needs help by radu_floricica on Saturday July 10, 2010 @10:15AM (#1503660)
This could actually be the kind of problem that's solvable by engineering. Make a simple and easy to use ad creation interface. Let me spend as much as I want for ads on certain subreddits/geoips. Make a system that sets the price by bidding, and that allows flagging/voting on an ad. Then advertise it.

It's incidentally what I think 4chan is missing too. Not necessarily for /b/, but the domain oriented boards coupled with some geoip would make for some pretty targeted ads. I think it's a pretty big loss not letting the little guy spend his $100 if he wants too.

Re:Reddit needs help by greendestiny on Friday July 09, 2010 @11:47PM (#1502989)
I'd do craigslist style classified subreddits I think, it works in well with the strong community aspect and there are already has strong geographical subreddits. But I'm not going to donate to reddit just so you guys can sell my eyeballs to advertisers better.
Re:Reddit needs help by astrodust on Saturday July 10, 2010 @08:10PM (#1504579)
What amazes me most about Reddit, apart from it's apparently Craigslist inspire design, is that there is only the most sheepish attempts to advertise.

As a registered user you know all the stories I've clicked on, all the stories I've voted for, and the sections I'm following, and with all this information you can't do something meaningful like put an ad or a "suggested link" for a product or service I'd like. I see links to the most random crap ever.

Why is it so hard to apply some sort of affinity metric to the advertising problem?

The sad truth is that if Reddit doesn't advertise, if the developer time is simply spent putting out fires, then it will end up being an irrelevant property. There is an amazing community there, which is a credit to what the site has managed so far, but that community will simply migrate to a better platform. It happened with Digg, it happened with Slashdot, and sadly it is inevitable that it will happen to Reddit unless some big changes are made.

Although I find many aspects of Facebook to be in outrageously bad taste, or rudely invasive, the one thing they've managed to do as a company is grow, build out, and become highly profitable. There are a lot of things Facebook does that are worth studying in meticulous detail, deconstructing and re-implementing, from their process, to their features, to their strategy to maintain growth. Their capability to execute on complicated technical problems is spectacular.

If Conde is unwilling to invest, maybe the best plan is to seek investors to buy out the property and make it an independent venture that's more focused on the site.

Re:Reddit needs help by code_duck on Saturday July 10, 2010 @08:38PM (#1504633)
Their attitude is somewhat Twitterish. They aren't going to scare off their readers with minor, unobtrusive advertising, and should just go ahead and be more direct about it. Strike while the iron is hot, make some money.
Re:Reddit needs help by ascott on Friday July 09, 2010 @08:25PM (#1502702)
I wouldn't mind seeing single sentence google adwords in the comment sections, perhaps 1 for every 30 comments. Bonus points if they got worked into the pun threads.
Re:Reddit needs help by jedberg on Friday July 09, 2010 @08:32PM (#1502716)
That was actually one of the things we already tried.

I think in a month we made enough for a cup of coffee.

Re:Reddit needs help by randallsquared on Friday July 09, 2010 @10:32PM (#1502891)
Something is seriously odd, here. I used to see $25 a month or so from an art-related site that got very little traffic in comparison. Unless you were just exaggerating for effect?
Re:Reddit needs help by code_duck on Saturday July 10, 2010 @08:43PM (#1504641)
First, he lives in Cupertino. Coffee there might cost $25, I'm not sure.

Then, Google payments have been declining for a long time. We tried AdSense and I STILL haven't made enough to get Google to send a check (nice how they'll hang on to your $80 to the end of time, hmm? Wonder how much free advertising Google scams that way). Then, we switched to our own ads and make approx. 800 times as much per day (not an exaggeration).

Re:Reddit needs help by paraschopra on Saturday July 10, 2010 @01:00AM (#1503078)
User demographics are very, very different. I'm betting most reditters are aware of Google AdSense (and consider it kind of lame?). But hardly any of your visitors may be aware of AdSense and may have actually considered as good-ol-relevant-link.
Re:Reddit needs help by blhack on Friday July 09, 2010 @09:42PM (#1502824)
How much would it really take to replace the ads on there now with google ads?
Re:Reddit needs help by nostrademons on Saturday July 10, 2010 @02:22AM (#1503171)
They had Google AdSense there when Reddit first launched, before they made their first ad deal with Federated Media. I'm not privy to what the numbers were, but I imagine they weren't good.
Re:Reddit needs help by cheesey on Sunday July 11, 2010 @07:17AM (#1505348)
If Condé Nast is unwilling in investing in reddit, what exactly DO they do?
Re:Reddit needs help by marilyn on Friday July 09, 2010 @08:59PM (#1502754)
Have you looked into outsourcing some your advertising space to a service like http://buysellads.com ?
Re:Reddit needs help by Devilboy on Friday July 09, 2010 @08:31PM (#1502714)
You should really get a Flattr button too, it's starting to get traction now.
Re:Reddit needs help by nmftt on Saturday July 10, 2010 @02:08AM (#1503159)
You should also ask them about their "Flattr for comments" model. I can't remember where I heard about it, it might not even be implemented yet. Anyways, the idea is to give the site hosting the user generated content (comments etc.) part of the revenue. When you've upvoted a comment you could get the option to Flattr it, if you have added Flattr to you profile etc.
Re:Reddit needs help by code_duck on Saturday July 10, 2010 @08:40PM (#1504639)
Hmm, making money as an incentive to post great comments? I like that idea.

On the other hand, if only we could charge people for comments we hate! The internet would get so much better...

Re:Reddit needs help by tharris7 on Friday July 09, 2010 @09:00PM (#1502755)
OT: anyone have a spare Flattr invite lying around? would be most appreciative. th AT uvic.ca
Re:Reddit needs help by daleharvey on Friday July 09, 2010 @10:04PM (#1502863)
did you get one? message me (@daleharvey) if you still want one
Re:Reddit needs help by collint on Friday July 09, 2010 @08:37PM (#1502728)
I really can't approve of this notion more.