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Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by dpiers on Friday August 11, 2017 @02:02PM (#14992582)
Can we stop describing ICO raises in USD? They raised ethereum tokens (ETH). The value of those tokens is specious, as there is no liquidity for the volume of ETH raised.

Based on current ETH/USD rates, the USD figure given translates to ~614K ETH. The value of 614K ETH has ranged from 92MM USD to 240MM USD in the last two months, and has been as low as 4.3MM USD since the beginning of the year.

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by mrb on Friday August 11, 2017 @03:15PM (#14993222)
"no liquidity for the volume of ETH raised"

Look again. Poloniex alone exchanges $1 billion dollars, 3M ETH, on the ETH/BTC pair, weekly. https://cryptowat.ch/poloniex/ethbtc/1w Volume on the path ETH→BTC→USD is a lot higher than ETH→USD and that's the path that whales dumping ETH take.

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by qaq on Friday August 11, 2017 @04:31PM (#14993902)
"Volume on the path ETH→BTC→USD is a lot higher than ETH→USD" which kinda reinforces the point that there is no liquidity
Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by jonreem on Friday August 11, 2017 @05:22PM (#14994428)
If you can get USD at the end why does it matter if you have to go through BTC for now? The liquidity is still there.
Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by panarky on Friday August 11, 2017 @03:13PM (#14993208)
The flaws in Filecoin’s token sale:

1) Filecoin gave an amazing deal to their buddies, just a few weeks ago

2) Filecoin is being insanely greedy

3) Early clickers are incentivized, price unknown

4) Protocol Labs and Filecoin foundation are keeping 2x the coins that investors will get

Source: https://medium.com/token-economy/the-analysis-filecoin-doesn...

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by Animats on Friday August 11, 2017 @02:19PM (#14992728)
I really want to hear the story when someone dumps $100M worth of Etherium. Or Bitcoin.

I wonder what would happen if you went to an Bitcoin exchange and said "I want to sell $100M worth of Bitcoins over the next 30 days. I'll pay your usual fees. After each day's sales, you wire transfer the proceeds to my bank within one business day, and you agree to a sizable penalty if you're late. Any validation of identity you want to do takes place before we do any business."

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by dahdum on Friday August 11, 2017 @02:49PM (#14992981)
Coinbase/GDAX will do exactly this, and your ~$3m of trade volume per day will be <10% of their book, and a drop in the bucket compared to the global markets. Your trades will be arb'd to every other exchange in seconds.

There are a ton of complaints about Coinbase support, but they cater to the largest clients like every other financial company.

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by Animats on Friday August 11, 2017 @03:05PM (#14993146)
The question is how much of that volume is the same money going back and forth. Taking sizable amounts of money out of the system is different. See 2010 flash crash".[1] There may be less real liquidity than transaction volume indicates.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Flash_Crash

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by dahdum on Friday August 11, 2017 @03:32PM (#14993369)
The majority of the global volume is crypto-crypto, so I agree it's a valid concern, but the volume of fiat trades has gone way up over the past several months. For example, Coinbase added 1 million accounts in June - the vast majority by necessity are putting fiat in vs cashing out.

One flash crash happened on the ETH-USD pair on GDAX like a month ago, when a large dump triggered cascading margin calls. Bitcoin has had a few of those over the years too.

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by lizardhunter on Friday August 11, 2017 @11:19PM (#14996263)
The volume on many exchanges are fake. It's pumped up using bots buying and selling among each other. Large dumping tends to go through dark pools or OTC. The real volumes are much lower.
Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by SomeStupidPoint on Friday August 11, 2017 @02:47PM (#14992969)
$100M in BTC is... ~29,000BTC. Let's call it 30,000BTC.

GDAX seems to handle 5k-10kBTC on a normal day. So liquidating in a month would be 10-20% of the trading volume on GDAX, every day for a month. Even pushing it out to 3 months liquidating, it would be a sizable portion of the sales. (This would be 0.250BTC/min for 90 days.)

I, too, would like to see what happened if someone liquidated a position that quickly.

(Of course, if you had $100M in BTC, you'd probably want to liquidate over the course of a year -- where you'd still be sizable traffic, but perhaps not completely crash the price. This would be 0.06BTC/min for a year.)

Edit:

Looking closer, GDAX seems to have a volume of about 6BTC/min. So the volume estimates for clearing 30kBTC in X days:

     30 days - 11.5%
     90 days -  3.8%
    365 days -  0.95%
GDAX is about 10% of the BTC volume globally, so you're talking 0.1%-1.2% of BTC volume being that clearing, for between a month and a year.
Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by dahdum on Friday August 11, 2017 @02:55PM (#14993040)
You'd also want to look for an OTC buyer at those levels. Gemini will facilitate those transactions and I think a couple others too. I don't have much experience in that area though.
Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by calafrax on Friday August 11, 2017 @04:46PM (#14994085)
The price crashes to 0.10 cents ... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-30/the-45-mi... ... and that was only 12.5 million. and then coinbase paid people who lost money out of their own capital. lol. ponzi at its finest.
Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by patothon on Friday August 11, 2017 @02:44PM (#14992934)
well if you find people buying these coins, what's the problem? That's the concept of an exchange.

It'll definitely drive the price down ,so that would be a weird thing to do anyway, except if you _want to_ drive the price down.

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by valuepack on Friday August 11, 2017 @02:58PM (#14993066)
Well in this case USD might be the best metric, as Filecoin isn't traded like a typical token on the ethereum blockchain like past ICOs. This ICO was done on Coinlist [1]. Filecoin tokens don't even exist yet and won't even be on the ethereum blockchain. You're purchasing tokens in advance that will be given to you in the genesis block on Filecoin's platform whenever it launches.

I would be curious to see the ratios of the currencies involved in their funding. I.e how much raised was in raw USD vs ETH vs Bitcoin. Maybe most was in fact ETH? I have no idea, I haven't seen those numbers listed anywhere.

[1]. https://coinlist.co/static/media/How-to-Invest.0a9f70b4.pdf

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by dahdum on Friday August 11, 2017 @02:09PM (#14992654)
"as there is no liquidity for the volume of ETH raised"

Volume is over $80 million in the ETH-USD pair over the past 24 hours, on just two exchanges (Coinbase/GDAX, Bitfinex).

Add in CNY, KRW, EUR and the true liquidity is much higher than that.

Edit: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethereum/#USD

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by 101km on Friday August 11, 2017 @02:23PM (#14992764)
There are no exchanges that will let you withdraw $xx million a day in fiat.

They'll need to spread the ETH to basically all the big exchanges, with multiple bank accounts attached, and liquidate large sums everyday for months and hope none of the accounts get frozen.

Still quite the windfall even if realistically just a fraction of the sums being thrown around.

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by dahdum on Friday August 11, 2017 @02:36PM (#14992875)
GDAX & Gemini will definitely let you withdrawal millions per day, you just need to be verified and clear from AML/KYC standpoint.
Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by Animats on Friday August 11, 2017 @07:46PM (#14995355)
There are no exchanges that will let you withdraw $xx million a day in fiat.

That's why your lawyers and their lawyers have to negotiate this up front and have a deal with penalties signed before any transactions take place. If you're dealing with amounts that big, you do that.

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by siong1987 on Friday August 11, 2017 @03:12PM (#14993196)
This isn't correct, you can actually fund the Filecoin ICO with cash(USD), BTC, and also ETH[1] as long as you are an accredited investor.

1. https://coinlist.co/static/media/How-to-Invest.0a9f70b4.pdf

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by redm on Friday August 11, 2017 @05:11PM (#14994318)
"The value of 614K ETH has ranged from 92MM USD to 240MM USD in the last two months,"

As I see it that's irrelevant. Whats relevant is the value at the time of the investment. As of yesterday, they raised Ethereum that had a then value of $186m. The fact that it may go up or down tomorrow is irrelevant.

Re:Filecoin Suspends ICO After Raising $186M in One Hour by okc on Friday August 11, 2017 @03:17PM (#14993242)
So what?

The point in having currency is a speculation of value between entities?