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Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by grecy on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @03:14AM (#14966214)
I have seen the impact of mines like this first hand in many third world countries. It is not what you think.

The people work horrendous hours for a tiny amount of money - maybe 50 cents per day. At the end of the day they need to pay for food (no time to grow it) and pay for people to do things like make their shelter, clothes and transport (no time to do it for themselves). And so they have zero money left. They also work in horrible conditions and have a life expectancy of ~40.

In many countries (Cameroon, Bolivia, Ivory Coast, Senegal, etc. etc.) I have seen where this crosses a line, and the locals simply choose not to work and just go back to growing their own food etc. Often they are happier and better off.

Yes, this forces the wages to go up a tiny fraction, but in reality it is almost nothing, because there are always more naive country-folk coming in who think (as you do) "having a job is great" and they will "provide for their families" etc. By the time they figure out the whole thing is a terrible scam and quit, they already live in a slum in the city and can't go back. They are trapped. They probably even owe the mine some money or live in housing provided by the mine, so they are literally owned.

Your idealized view of Capitalism is plain wrong. It does not happen like that in countries that do not have strict labor laws. (and even then, I would argue that many in the USA are working-slaves)

Read Grapes of Wrath if you have not, it does a fantastic job of illustrating how people become trapped in extremely low-paying jobs with little to no choice.

Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by ryan-allen on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @03:28AM (#14966287)
Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by totalZero on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @06:55AM (#14967344)
I mean, I personally believe that there is a better option than to allow such mines to function, but if Apple can get away with holding the opposite opinion (as mentioned at the end of the article), then it probably deserves a response that doesn't attack one person's alleged view of Capitalism.
Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by kobeya on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @03:30AM (#14966301)
You are wrong to think I'm not aware of the grisly circumstances under which many work, or that I've never been in despicable situations myself, or that I'm not familiar with the literary works of the communist-leaning John Steinbeck. I stand by my original statement.
Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by grecy on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @03:47AM (#14966370)
You are completely aware that working for pennies a day is pointless, shortens their lives, and many people would be better off not doing it.

However, you stand by your original statement that you are glad they have a job.

Color me confused.

Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by kobeya on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @04:03AM (#14966444)
You don't get to compare reality against some imagined utopia where these mine jobs don't exist and everyone is fed and happy children are attending air conditioned schools with loving parents at home. You only get to compare against what would actually happen: the boys would become child soldiers because it beats hunger, and the girls will turn to prostitution. Now it is your turn to tell me this is a better outcome.
Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by grecy on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @04:36AM (#14966618)
> Now it is your turn to tell me this is a better outcome

I can tell you what I have seen, not anything at all imagined.

I have seen hundreds of people quit their jobs in third world mines and other "western owned slave labor". So I can tell you first hand exactly the outcome that happens.

I have seen those people go back to growing their own food, making and washing their own clothes, building their own houses etc. They go back to being members of their communities. They have massively more food and water than they need, and quickly have a lot of social time. Now they have time to spend with their family and friends. They don't have much money, so often they won't own a car, but they have plenty of food and water and shelter and family time.

Their basic needs are met, and they have a good life.

Actually, it virtually all of the 15 countries I have been to in West Africa I have met hundreds and hundreds (and seen thousands) of people that have massively more leisure time than anyone I know in the Western World, and on the whole I would say people are happier. Certainly they have no stress, no timelines and don't answer to any boss. They have no alarms, and don't care what time it is on any given day (or what day it is).

This is not hollywood. This is not the world CNN tells you it is. Child soldiers and prostitution are not the only option, and in my experience in over 30 undeveloped countries, they are extremely rare.

Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by Elrac on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @05:43AM (#14966962)
What you write sounds good, and you seem to have the experience to back yourself up, but the overall picture doesn't make sense:

You say that people who stop doing this back-breaking, underpaid work end up better off. If that's the case, why are people still staying on the shitty job? Why aren't they making what looks like a no-brainer decision from our viewpoint?

Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by grecy on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @05:54AM (#14967023)
As I said in the original comment, there are many possible reasons. They have already moved from their farm to live in a slum in the city, and can't go back. They probably owe some money for that move, maybe even they owe money to the mine. They maybe even live in mine-supplied housing.

Of course, the lure of "lots of money" is a strong one, and they will work for years and years thinking one day they will have the lucky break that will make the difference and pull them out of poverty. (side note: sound familiar? Look around you)

Like I said, read grapes of wrath to see an excellent account of how people head towards this "working dream" only to become disgustingly trapped working as slave labor, continually going backwards even though they work harder and harder. When they are unable they are kicked out to die and replaced.

And finally, many people do quit and attempt to get away from it all, but there is an endless stream of naive newcomers to continually staff the mine. (again, see this clearly shown in grapes of wrath)

Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by Elrac on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @07:34AM (#14967527)
Now you've made me wish I'd read Grapes of Wrath!

Thanks for the explanation. Those may not be good reasons, but they're understandable reasons that help solve the puzzle for me.

Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by grecy on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @07:54AM (#14967653)
I am curious, how do you distinguish between "good reasons" and the reasons that are causing this to happen ?
Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by eecc on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @04:57AM (#14966728)
Yeah, TINA. You do realize that examples of what you dismiss as utopia do - or did - exist? Particularly where they didn't catch the attention of USA obsessive war against Socialism.
Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by eecc on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @04:53AM (#14966716)
Ha! You do realize that your line of argument basically is: "if I don't like something I'll just resort to calling it names." quite the same as that senile buffoon you elected to POTUS?
Re:Children work in Congolese mines where cobalt is extracte... by kobeya on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @06:32AM (#14967204)
I take offense at the notion that because I disagree I must be ignorant and/or stupid. The other possibility is that I have heard all the arguments and found them lacking.

For the record I did not vote for Trump and referencing the president of the US is entirely off topic.