News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by pantalaimon on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:03AM (#14958500)
> Credit card workflow:

> - Cashier tells you the total amount

> - You look in your wallet/purse

> - You swipe card/insert in chip reader

> - Done

You forgot the part where you have to enter you PIN and wait for the transaction to go through, or sign the receipt.

Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by fleg on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:08AM (#14958562)
Contactless payments don't need PIN (up to some small but comfortable amount) and go through almost instantly.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by Sleeep on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:47AM (#14959038)
I tried to use android pay for a few months. In theory its great (and it's great when it works!) but like 30% of the time it doesn't really work the first time, you have to play around with it on the card reader. Then the phone vibrates like it worked but nothing happens. You look at the phone and it says "please hold the card to the reader again." and despite Subway accepting android pay (and the cashiers insisting that it works for everyone else) whenever I try to use it there I get a message "please insert card." I was never able to figure out the workflow to get it to work on a vending machine. Also the first time I used it I froze the register.

So 70% of the time it saves time and 30% of the time it wastes time. Then I broke my phone and bought a replacement without NFC so I don't have the option anymore anyways.

It's a great system, however, I think the kinks need to be worked out a little.

(I had a Nexus 5x FYI)

Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by celticninja on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:56AM (#14959155)
Contactless debit cards are a lot more reliable than phones, mainly because they have one unique job. My card plays up now and again but that is only since it went through the tumble dryer, which distorted the card and seems to have affected the reliability of the NFC chip, in practice this means I sometimes need to tap twice.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by wongarsu on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:15AM (#14958659)
But Germans don't trust contactless payment because in theory anybody could hold a card reader against your wallet while you're innocently waiting in some line.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by Symbiote on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:38AM (#14958931)
And just what would they do with it?

That seems an easy way to get your merchant account cancelled very, very quickly.

Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by herbst on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:59AM (#14959195)
But why would they care? Stripe does payments every 3 days or so and you can easily create more accounts. I never ever checked my credit card history, and I assume many people who only use it as secondary payment system don't. It's easy as fuck therefore IMO a valid scenario.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by Symbiote on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @01:14PM (#14959988)
Without the CVC code, Stripe isn't going to accept the payment.

Even if it did, the bank is likely to block the transaction, or call/text for verification.

Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by jhasse on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @02:39PM (#14961078)
> CVC code

I heard that those are very easy to crack. It might have been this article from 2011 where I read about this (German, sorry): http://www.zeit.de/2011/21/Kreditkarten-Sicherheit

Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by herbst on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @02:47PM (#14961162)
Not to mention half of the database leaks in recent years, especially of porn sites, contained them anyway
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by faceplanted on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @05:42AM (#14966956)
The defence against that for me is that I have like 6 rfid enabled cards in my wallet, between my Oyster Card, student ID, library card, key card to access my work building, you can't scan any of them without taking it out individually.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by thesmok on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @11:08AM (#14969809)
I carry two contactless cards: the metro pass and an office key. They are just taped together (because I want to make sure I always have both) and still reliably work, so I doubt you are protected.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by faceplanted on Sunday August 20, 2017 @11:43AM (#15058855)
I have tried many times to use a single one of them without the other 5 interfering and it has literally never worked.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by hobo_mark on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:28AM (#14958825)
That's because, as I was shocked to find out, most POS in the US don't ask for a PIN! Convenient indeed, until someone gets ahold of your card.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by bluGill on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:31PM (#14959523)
This isn't shocking if you understand the different legal context around credit cards in the US.

Historically if in the US if someone gets a hold of your card, if I report it as soon as I know there is a problem you are legally out $50, and the credit card company and merchant has to eat the rest of the loss. In most cases the credit card companies figure since they have to take the rest of the loss they may as well get the customer service points by taking that $50 as well. As such it is only a minor inconvenience if someone gets a hold of your card, most of which is related to waiting for them to mail you a new one. Because of this people don't care about chip and pin being more secure: security was not their problem. This is also a factor in why the US is much more likely to use a credit card: there are no anecdotes about someone losing a lot of money because of their card.

By contrast in Europe you were liable for all amounts charged on your card before you report it, even if you had no way to know about the charge. Since the credit card companies didn't have to take a large risk they typically didn't agree to take it on. As such a credit card is much riskier, and so it is prudent to not use your cards if you have a different option. When chip and pin came out consumers were interested because it gave them some ability to limit their loss: their chip/pin card could be lost without the potential of great loss.

Note that the above is historical, and like all generalizations is false in some way. Laws change all the time which means the current reality is probably different - but the historical reality is still shaping our world. Europe is not a country, each country in Europe always had their own laws which differed in some way from the next.

Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by codegeek on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:36AM (#14958914)
Almost all credit cards are 0 liability to the consumer. Even if someone gets a hold of my card, I can call the credit card company and get all fraud charges reversed. That's why I personally always use a credit card EVERYWHERE. I hate cash and I hate to wait in lines. But sure, they have an electronic trail on me which frankly, I don't care too much about. If the Govt wants to get you, they WILL get you.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by pmoriarty on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:38PM (#14959595)
"Almost all credit cards are 0 liability to the consumer. Even if someone gets a hold of my card, I can call the credit card company and get all fraud charges reversed."

That's true only if you or the credit card company notice the fraudulent transactions and act on them within the limited grace period, which I believe is something like 3 months.

Many people don't actually keep their receipts or reconcile them with their credit card statement. So unless they get an unexpectedly huge credit card bill, they might not even notice that they were victims of fraud and in that case the "0 liability" credit card policies are worthless, because they get defrauded anyway.

Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by planteen on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:39AM (#14958945)
Americans are used to entering PINs on debit cards, but not credit. However, in my recent experience in Iceland & Germany, most POS don't ask for a PIN on credit transactions either. The only time I was asked for a PIN on a credit card was at a gas pump.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by herbst on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:00PM (#14959207)
That however is because of your American card and not the POS systems usually not asking.

I have to verify any transaction over 20$ with my Swiss credit card for example. Even on contactless

Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by anarazel on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:09PM (#14959275)
You commonly don't have to do that for small transactions in your usual country.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by codegeek on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:18AM (#14958695)
Another difference between American and other systems. Credit cards in US don't have PIN numbers. Only Debit cards have PIN.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by planteen on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:40AM (#14958962)
They do have PINs, just most people don't know what they are. You can use the PIN to withdraw cash from an ATM at a ridiculous interest rate. I recently was using my credit card in Iceland at a gas pump where I was prompted for a PIN.
Re:Why Germans pay cash for almost everything by StavrosK on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:25AM (#14958784)
Yeah, but you have to sign, which is worse.