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Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by whipoodle on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:33PM (#14949324)
Maybe it's okay for people to be outraged about some things.
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by fireflash38 on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:36PM (#14949363)
Sure is! People can be offended all they want. Where things get really iffy is when they want 'justice'. It often means that they try to get that person fired or lambasted in front of their peers. I don't see how that's at all constructive, let alone 'justice'.

At the very least, it leads to even more divisiveness, instead of rational discussion.

As a thought experiment: have you ever seen someone change their mind or worldview as a result of being insulted & fired?

Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by navait on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:44PM (#14949453)
My manager threatened one of my co-workers with termination if they didn't take a more proactive approach towards making the code he wrote more robust. He took out specific examples of shit code he wrote, and had us criticize it and the mindset that created it. It changed how he programmed for the better and his outlook towards his job.
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by stagbeetle on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:58PM (#14949598)
The first step is to want to help.

Too many, all across the spectrum, have his mindset that people that do or think things they don't like should be destroyed and locked away from "civilized society." A common rebuttal I see from these sorts, after being questioned why they don't take it upon themselves to sit down and understand one another (I will concede there is a very very very small minority that this shouldn't be done with, but you're unlikely to ever interact with them), is that it's not their duty to help these people.

Unfortunately, this makes the issue worse when you start exiling certain groups and radicalized with hate.

Here's an interesting article (isolated incident) where those with extreme views were shown compassion and understanding, and ultimately disavowed their ideas:

Black Man Gets KKK Members To Disavow By Befriending Them: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-man-daryl-davis-be...

Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by fireflash38 on Monday August 07, 2017 @02:01PM (#14949632)
I wouldn't consider that a change in worldview, which tend to be far more deeply ingrained.
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by dragonwriter on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:50PM (#14949518)
> As a thought experiment: have you ever seen someone change their mind or worldview as a result of being insulted & fired?

I have see people limited in their ability to cause further harm by being fired; not all consequences are directed at reformation if he offender.

Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by untog on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:46PM (#14949481)
> As a thought experiment: have you ever seen someone change their mind or worldview as a result of being insulted & fired?

...but that's not why someone in this position would be fired. It would be because their publicly stated opinions about what people are and are not capable of makes their co-workers deeply uncomfortable.

We can debate endlessly (we already have, I'm sure we will again) whether firing is the right or wrong choice, but let's argue about it for the right reasons.

Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by JoshTriplett on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:47PM (#14949493)
> As a thought experiment: have you ever seen someone change their mind or worldview as a result of being insulted & fired?

It's fundamentally not about them; it's about their co-workers. Making it about them is the wrong approach.

Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by fireflash38 on Monday August 07, 2017 @02:00PM (#14949627)
I personally wouldn't want to work with people who can't handle the slightest adversity.
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by s73ver on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:46PM (#14949478)
As a thought experiment: have you ever seen a team work well together when one of the members has publically said that half of their team doesn't deserve to be there and shouldn't have been hired in the first place?
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by Danihan on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:39PM (#14949397)
Sure it is. Lots of people get outraged and offended by any number of things.

For instance, I'm outraged that anything related to Affirmative Action exists period -- as I believe codified, race-based laws are disgusting and an anathema to the construct of equality and equal-treatment under the law.

Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by wehadfun on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:58PM (#14949596)
White women are the biggest beneficiary of Affirmative Action. If you think that AA is a race only thing you are wrong.
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by Quarrelsome on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:37PM (#14949374)
But is it okay to campaign towards the goal of firing someone for expressing an opinion they feel outraged about?
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by snerbles on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:42PM (#14949423)
To some, the mere expression of an outrageous opinion is a form of violence in and of itself.

Following this logic, any who express such ideas to others should be sanctioned as if they committed physical violence.

Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by poohblahoyamo on Monday August 07, 2017 @09:25PM (#14952747)
Ohhhh, I see.. nobody ever showed me this linear line.. (I am a minority, immigrant.woman...) The social justice warrior reasoning were.never very clear today.
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by dragonwriter on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:45PM (#14949466)
> But is it okay to campaign towards the goal of firing someone for expressing an opinion they feel outraged about?

It depends what the opinion is, and what job the person holds, and the relationship between those two things. The idea that the coercive power of government should not be deployed against expression doesn't mean all ideas or equal or that there are never conditions where expression should have negative consequences.

(In fact, any answer to your question implies that there are ideas that are unacceptable to express.)

Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by Semiapies on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:41PM (#14949414)
Sure!

Especially when it's so rare that it's a big kerfuffle every single time it happens in this industry.

Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by s73ver on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:49PM (#14949508)
Let's be frank, here. This is not someone merely "expressing an opinion." This is someone rallying against diversity, using pseudoscience to back up claims that women and minorities are inferior, and thus shouldn't have been hired. On top of that, they ranted about how Google had not done enough to make conservatives feel they have a safe space, when the only thing Google has done on the subject is to make others feel safe at Google.
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by amazingman on Monday August 07, 2017 @01:54PM (#14949556)
I looked for claims in the manifesto that women and/or minorities are inferior, and I failed to find them. Would you mind providing an example of what I seem to have missed?
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by drewrv on Monday August 07, 2017 @02:15PM (#14949779)
Believing that diversity requires "lowing the bar" means believing "diverse" candidates are inferior.
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by amazingman on Monday August 07, 2017 @02:28PM (#14949928)
Again, I failed to find this claim. The one instance I found of this phrase arises explicitly within a claim about a specific hiring practice being discriminatory:

>Hiring practices which can effectively lower the bar for “diversity” candidates by decreasing the false negative rate

Is this what you're referring to?

Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by dsfyu404ed on Monday August 07, 2017 @02:40PM (#14950047)
No, it just means that ones that meet the current requirements are not available in sufficient quantity.
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by shaftoe on Monday August 07, 2017 @02:11PM (#14949752)
He didn't rail against diversity, he railed against what are effectively affirmative action policies. Several times he went to pains to point out he wasn't against diversity of people, just the initiatives at Google.

He railed against the idea that pay and hiring gaps must be caused by biases and, once you rule out bias, what you're left with must be some combination of cultural, biological, and personal factors. Better to discuss and address real issues and not perpetually pretend that everyone is a closet racist and sexist.

[dead]
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by shaftoe on Monday August 07, 2017 @04:39PM (#14951061)
In that scenario, I don't know anyone who would defend the prejudiced team member.

Can I give you another that I've experienced? "You rejected this interviewee? Can you give them another look? We need more diversity."

What is the proper way to proceed in this situation?

Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by s73ver on Monday August 07, 2017 @05:21PM (#14951378)
To re-examine why you rejected them, and see if other candidates were rejected for similar reasons or not. There are several studies that show that women and minorities are simply judged harsher than their peers despite having similar levels of talent and ability[1]. Examine if perhaps you fell into that trap. Obviously if someone couldn't do fizzbuzz, they shouldn't be hired. But I would wager that in many cases, there are those candidates that are very close, and they end up getting picked or rejected based on these unconscious factors.

And, also, to look at why diverse candidates are not applying to work at your company is decent numbers.

[1]One such article: http://fortune.com/2014/08/26/performance-review-gender-bias...

Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by poohblahoyamo on Monday August 07, 2017 @09:28PM (#14952771)
Like my husband? "I ask every person this question, she had no idea after so much hinting. People who can't answer these questions cannot operate our code base without significant help from others. The last few times I let this slide they all turned into huge disasters. So, absolutely no. " .... HR makes someone interview this girl again to that person. This girl truly is too inexperienced to fly, but no, lets reject all these c.s degree guys with projects on their github and let's make a third person interview them again. .....God, I am a doctor, I am a minority female immigrant doctor, I don't exactly get this kind of benefit of the doubt when I look for a job, okay?
Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by wanderingshi on Monday August 07, 2017 @02:02PM (#14949656)
actually, I think the author was pro-diversity but anti-diversity programs. in other words, he's rallying against diversity programs, not diversity.

he also didn't outright claim women/minorities are "inferior" but that biological differences mean they are good at different things and maybe driving them into tech isn't necessarily a good thing. he also further claims we should be looking at each candidate and evaluate their skills as an individual and not because of one of their attributes (i.e. race, gender, religion)

I'd urge you to reread the manifesto and not get too focused on the part with bad science. the author makes some other interesting points.

Re:On managing outrage in Silicon Valley by lawnchair_larry on Monday August 07, 2017 @06:24PM (#14951766)
Did you miss the part where he was promoting diversity and proposing strategies to improve it? Weirdest rally "against" diversity I've ever heard of.