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Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by stagbeetle on Saturday August 05, 2017 @07:33PM (#14938639)
Your comment was one of the points argued in the memo.

It's important to understand and prioritize intention or else: >increases [in our] our sensitivity, which is not universally positive: sensitivity increases both our tendency to take offense and our self censorship, leading to authoritarian policies.

This means distinguishing between a well-meaning comment and a maleficent or predatory remark.

Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by taysic on Saturday August 05, 2017 @07:53PM (#14938744)
Usually if it takes work to distinguish it's not worth it within a work environment. That's why professional environments are effective and make a pleasant place to work for all.
Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by stagbeetle on Saturday August 05, 2017 @09:04PM (#14939080)
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Could you elaborate on

>Usually if it takes work to distinguish it's not worth it within a work environment.

Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by jahlove on Saturday August 05, 2017 @09:30PM (#14939176)
By the overloaded term "work", OP really meant "effort"
Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by stagbeetle on Saturday August 05, 2017 @09:40PM (#14939202)
I understand that part, but I don't understand how that sentence relates to the second:

"That's why professional environments are effective and make a pleasant place to work for all."

If there's a missing "if" before the "it's" in his first sentence, I can only assume he means it takes effort to restrain oneself from being unfiltered, but there's an uncanny taste of an insult I can't pinpoint.

Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by kemayo on Saturday August 05, 2017 @11:25PM (#14939496)
(I'm not the OP, so I might be misrepresenting taysic's views here.)

I think for clarity I'd add a comma:

> Usually, if it takes work to distinguish, it's not worth it within a work environment.

Such that it's read as:

> Usually, if it takes work to distinguish [whether it's worth it,] it's not worth it within a work environment.

The idea is that in a professional environment, part of "being professional" is avoiding those situations where your comments might be read as unwelcome. With a viable rule of thumb being to just err on the side of assuming they'd be unwelcome in any case where you have to think about it.

Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by stagbeetle on Saturday August 05, 2017 @11:52PM (#14939572)
Thank you.

I see now looking through that lense it makes sense. After re-reading my comment he was replying to I think I understand exactly what the OP was trying to convey.

"If you have to consciously figure out if comments are malevolent or not, you should find a new workplace."

And that "that's why professional environments are effective and make a pleasant place to work for all," implies more real work is done when you're not playing office politics, and everyone comes out happier because of it.

In retrospect, it seems like a silly thing to try and figure out.

Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by door on Saturday August 05, 2017 @07:44PM (#14938698)
your intentions don't excuse inappropriate behavior.

if you really didn't intend to say something that made someone feel disrespected, your response should be "Oh, I am so sorry, I won't make that kind of comment in the future", not "Well you're wrong for being offended." that kind of response is basically saying "your feelings don't matter, all that matters is what is going on in my head and not what I actually did and how it actually made you feel"

Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by stagbeetle on Saturday August 05, 2017 @07:51PM (#14938734)
Intent is vital in the deliverance and sentencing of criminals (as well as severity).

You'll find that the U.S.A's EEOC does not label one-off remarks as sexual harassment.[0]

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment#EEOC_Definit...

Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by kemayo on Saturday August 05, 2017 @08:45PM (#14938993)
There's a difference between "sexual harassment" and "sexual harassment to a level that's criminal". I think it's reasonable to say that something is simultaneously inappropriate at work and not something you should be arrested for.
Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by stagbeetle on Saturday August 05, 2017 @09:02PM (#14939075)
Is the primary authority's (EEOC) definition of sexual harassment: It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.[0]

And is the primary authority's (EEOC) definition of harassment in general: Offensive conduct may include, but is not limited to, offensive jokes, slurs, epithets or name calling, physical assaults or threats, intimidation, ridicule or mockery, insults or put-downs, offensive objects or pictures, and interference with work performance.[1]

Neither of which make the remark in-question constitute of sexual harassment or harassment in-general. I'm sure there is a proper word that accurately describes unwanted remarks about a person's body, but by calling it sexual harassment you are marginalizing the serious cases of sexual harassment that fit under the legal definition.

[0]https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm [1]https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/harassment.cfm

Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by kemayo on Saturday August 05, 2017 @11:44PM (#14939552)
Mind you, by that definition it's easy to construe it as borderline "unwelcome sexual advances" or "verbal harassment of a sexual nature".

That said, I acknowledge it's very situational whether something might be read as unwelcome. Which is why avoiding these things in a professional context seems pretty wise.

Anyway, since we're replying here to door's comment... I think they're right regardless of whether we want to call it "sexual harassment". If you offend someone in a way which feels creepy / harassing to them, even assuming that you absolutely meant it in a non-sexual non-flirtatious entirely-platonic matter, your should apologize, maybe clarify your intentions, and say you'll do better in the future. Attempting to argue that you didn't mean it that way so they shouldn't be offended is counterproductive.

Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by stagbeetle on Saturday August 05, 2017 @11:59PM (#14939588)
I agree with you there. If someone unintentionally offends another, an apology, followed up with extras (e.g clarification) where needed, is the correct course of action.

My only gripe was with semantics, which have the potential to do more harm than good.

Re:The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Intern... by marknutter on Monday August 07, 2017 @04:51PM (#14951156)
As a person of grammar, I'm offended by the fact that you don't capitalize the first word in your sentences. It doesn't excuse your inappropriate behavior that you may not have intended it.