My wife is a Type-1 diabetic and I'm fairly confident that there's no such thing as a "zero carb" diet. She's had several endocrinologists tell her that she needs to eat carbohydrates. This is definitely something we need to survive! More importantly, there are naturally occurring carbohydrates in most unprocessed foods (greens, vegetables, beans, etc). Obviously "refined carbohydrates" are different — that's the sugary stuff you find in pop but also stuff like pasta and white rice. Basically the goal should be to avoid overly processed foods, not all carbohydrates.

There is no essential carbohydrate, the body can derive any glucose it needs from essential fats and proteins.

That said, I'm keto and find it difficult to stay under 30 grams of carbohydrates per-day simply because carbs are in so many foods. I've, a few times, gone "strict" keto i.e 10g< of total carbs per day which includes indigestible fiber and I (anecdata coming at you) felt great.

Surely that should be "anecadatum"?

I'm also practicing keto for 2 months with nothing but success in all aspects. N=1 as well, but check out FB and Reddit keto groups for N=100s

Hehe, I like that, I'll use it.

I was diagnosed type 2 diabetic and went on keto with almost no carbs for 5 months and am now borderline not diabetic / pre diabetic.

"Almost" no carbs is very different than OP's triple assertion of "you're mistaken", "not required" and "zero".

It's really really tough to achieve or maintain 0 carbs in a day's food intake. This is one of the reasons why you'll not come across many who have done it.

On a keto diet, one can attain < 20g carbs per day with some struggle but to cut it out entirely is really hard without missing some other essential nutrients - because at least some carbs tag along with other things.

It's not really. Most traditional religions have fasting practices and pretty much all our ancestors did it from time to time. A 7 day fast here and there is completely natural and not that hard after the first 30-50 hours.

Your point is irrelevant - the post you replied to asserted that it's tough to create a diet with no carbs, to which your suggestion is to not eat at all. Not eating is not a sustainable diet.

It is a sure-fire way to get into keto if that's your goal. Also there are some significant advantages to intermittent fasting vs continuous calorie restriction: https://www.dietdoctor.com/intermittent-fasting-vs-caloric-r...

You're right. But even in terms of unrefined carbs like certain sugary fruits I couldn't have without it affecting my blood sugar levels.

Congratulations on your hard work! Head on over and join fellow Type 2's at the Diabetes Daily site. They were the community whose discussions gave me the tools to bring my HbA1c to 5.7 for 2.5 years running. Without any medication (I was on Metformin and statins when initially diagnosed).

If you refuse to consign yourself to the fate that most MD's in the US describe for their diabetic patients (mine told me, "there's nothing you can do to improve it, other than some exercise, take the medicine, annual check ups, and then hope there aren't complications as you age"...I got another general practitioner), then self-support groups like this are the only way to go to find what works for you, IMHO. The Reddit group is also helpful when starting out, but I found them not as hardcore about control as I wanted, which I found in some members of the DD group.

Yup, I was originally on metformin before keto. When I was first diagnosed I went to a dietician and I told her I could try cutting out carbs and she gave me the Food Pyramid and told me to cut out fat and reduce intake of sugar. Did that for a year then discovered keto in January of this year and it paid off for my first a1c check.

What undesirable medical condition occurs as a result of zero carbs? I've never heard of one.

I (painfully) found out I was pre-disposed to gout only after going on a high protein diet. That said, if you're careful to avoid too many high purine meats, you can avoid that side effect.

There is a large number of ways that one can turn an exclusionary diet into an unhealthy diet - by what you choose to include. This doesn't make the exclusion unhealthy, or the excluded food necessary. Most ULC dieters I know are LCHF, while restricting their protein intake carefully. ULC is not high protein.

Their advice is wrong and deadly.

https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Bernsteins-Diabetes-Solution-Achie...

> Their advice is wrong and deadly.

Are you saying that "She's had several endocrinologists tell her that she needs to eat carbohydrates" is wrong and deadly? (There seems to be no other advice in mcone's post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14812819 to which you are responding.) If so, are you adducing the book you link as your evidence?

Without knowing anything about that book or its author, I think that it's fair to say that any one persons's conclusions should be treated with profound scepticism. That's not the same as saying that they're wrong, but it does mean that calling contrary advice "wrong and deadly" seems very much to be excessively certain.

> Without knowing anything about that book or its author...

He is a well-known proponent of cutting carbs for all diabetics, even Type 1's, see his Wikipedia entry for an intro [1]. He's been open about his own Type 1, and:

"As of 2006, Bernstein had an HDL cholesterol of 118, LDL of 53, Triglycerides of 45, and average blood sugar of 83 mg/dl.[3] By 2008, at 74 years of age, Bernstein had surpassed the life expectancy of type 1 diabetics."

I wouldn't go as far as to say any carbohydrates is "wrong and deadly". However, OP you're responding to is correct: there is a metabolic pathway [2] that generates the necessary carbohydrates from fats and proteins in your diet if you don't eat enough. There are challenges with the ketogenic diet if not carefully followed, and it doesn't work for everyone [3].

0.14% of the diabetic population have qualified for a diagnosis of complete remission [4]. There is no cure, but some Type 2's can manage without medication and still diagnostically show no sign of Type 2 via blood glucose and HbA1c tests; those that maintain it for over a couple of years qualify as complete remission. I've found more of these people or diabetics approaching that level of control at the Diabetes Daily site than any other location on the Net [5]. Overwhelmingly, carb restriction is the first go-to they recommend all newly-diagnosed who want to join this small club try as among the first treatment protocols. Even many Type 1's report benefiting from not requiring nearly as much insulin after restricting carbs. It's worth investigating, if only to rule it out if it doesn't happen to work for your wife.

Good luck with your wife's Type 1.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_K._Bernstein

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet

[4] http://www.diabetes.org/research-and-practice/patient-access...

[5] https://www.diabetesdaily.com/

> Good luck with your wife's Type 1.

Just for the record, not mine, but mcone's (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14812819).

There's no "zero" carb diet but being in ketosis means you don't need carbohydrates. But a ketogenic diet is not something I'd recommend a diabetic do without consulting a doctor and regular blood work.

Sure there is: https://www.reddit.com/r/zerocarb/

That said, eating only animal products makes keto look tame in comparison.

Why, what are the risks?

I don't know but with an existing illness that could cause serious issues on its own I'm careful to even seem like I'm making a suggestion.

Thanks for that information; I'm not expert enough to respond to the scientific claim that you made, but what I can say is that I suspect I'm using the term "need" in a less-strict sense than you are, to mean "if a person is not consuming any carbs, that person is likely going to eventually feel some level of 'healthy' craving for carbs".

From what I've read, the craving for carbs is an adaptive evolutionary response, from an environment where food was scarce.

Carbs were only available in the summer/spring, and food became even more scarce in autum/winter. Thus, humans developed a powerful chemical response to carb intake - we crave carbs because they were the only means to fatten up and avoid starvation and death.

You don't eat vegetables?

Most ketoers eat high fiber, low carb, nutrient dense vegetables. Non-digestible fiber is listed on the food label as a carbohydrate, though it doesn't enter the blood stream - so ketoers are concerned with 'net carbs', not total carbs.

If you keep your incidental carbs low enough, they will be burned off without taking you out of the ketogenic, fat-burning state.

It is not the incidental carbs in these vegetables for which we might have a nutritional need, but the vitamins and minerals.