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Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by chadgeidel on Monday June 26, 2017 @04:44PM (#14640206)
The guest on that article and the blog author are the same person.

How can you "understand that mcmansions are bad architecture" and also say "the whole thing stank of classist elitism"? The blog points fun at clearly bad buildings. Fake columns, unnecessary rooms, poor placement of re-used furniture, etc. Sarcasm is funny. The blog is sarcastic in nature. What's wrong with that?

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by KaiserPro on Monday June 26, 2017 @05:37PM (#14640598)
to add, the blog doesn't just go: "its horrid"

it goes: "its horrid because its trying to copy this style, here is what this style is supposed to be, and this is why it fails to look right here"

Its basically a wonderfully funny incident post mortem.

I wish my post mortems were so funny and illuminating

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by criddell on Monday June 26, 2017 @05:54PM (#14640708)
Maybe it will just take time for some of these design choices to be appreciated?

Is a fake column on a house any different than fins on a 1959 Cadillac?

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by chadgeidel on Monday June 26, 2017 @06:01PM (#14640752)
It's a good question. I'm not well-versed enough in design theory to answer, but I'll offer my opinion anyway. :-)

The fins on a 1959 Cadillac are well-integrated (design-wise) on the car. It's a theme of the era and the car was designed from the ground up to look like a jet or a rocket.

The design elements in a McMansion are not well integrated (see the posts on the site) - they are added on as an afterthought because "nice houses have these things". There is no coherent style or design.

If I had to guess, I would say the "gaudy" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoni_Gaud%C3%AD !!) design of a Cadillac will be well-regarded for at least 100 years. I don't think the design of McMansions will ever be well-regarded.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by InspiredIdiot on Monday June 26, 2017 @08:08PM (#14641497)
It doesn't appear that Antoni Gaudí had anything to do with the etymology of the term "gaudy" as it was in use hundreds of years before he was born.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gaudy https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gaudy

I couldn't help looking it up because the idea that a single artist could stand out so much to be singularly associated with that term was tempting. I expect that is why such a false association persists.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by magic_beans on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @11:18AM (#14646170)
Gaudí may not have been the origin of the word "gaudy", but perhaps he was an example of nominative determinism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism

;)

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by chadgeidel on Monday June 26, 2017 @09:30PM (#14641899)
Oh! Thank you for that!
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by cat199 on Monday June 26, 2017 @06:12PM (#14640814)
Also:

50's US cars were also exceedingly well built using high quality materials and mostly/nearly by hand..

which goes against the 'cheap / phony materials' ethos critiqued in mcmansions..

that said, plenty of people I'm sure critiqued the 'chintzy' 50s asthetic and increased use of plastics in the day..

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by randcraw on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @03:20AM (#14643141)
I'm no designer either, but I think Caddy fins were great examples of baroque flourishes -- excessive extensions to past design motifs that give a heightened sense of motion or flow or accent. Future designs can't build on such flourishes. They were stylistic endpoints, like the accents in Art Deco, but often use a coherent set of design principles within a time period and thus create a harmony of their own.

But McMansions lack common flourishes or motifs. They share only size and a brutal ostentation intended only to say, "I have money, and taste be damned."

The best exposition I know on the suburban blight AKA McMansions is "The Geography of Nowhere" by James Howard Kunstler.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by criddell on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @09:39AM (#14645248)
I'm in the Stewart Brand camp that is pretty much built on the taste be damned ethos. The idea of a McMansion appeals to me because I'm not afraid to move walls and plumbing to make the space exactly what I want.
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by siidooloo on Monday June 26, 2017 @06:16PM (#14640831)
McMansions more resemble the car Homer Simpson designed than a 1959 Cadillac. One of the main distinguishing features of a McMansion is that it doesn't have any unified design aesthetic. They just glom a bunch of random things together.
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by falsedan on Monday June 26, 2017 @05:43PM (#14640635)
> The blog is sarcastic in nature. What's wrong with that?

It's punching down: the builders/purchasers didn't know/care how to make architecturally sophisticated dwellings, which is no reason to make fun of someone. The commentary applies equally-well to pre-fab apartments, shotgun shacks, suburban housing developments, etc. It's poorly-targeted.

It's also elitist a.f. "Look at these gauche bungalows, drawn up no doubt by someone who never heard of Falling Water, let alone ever showered"

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by careersuicide on Monday June 26, 2017 @05:55PM (#14640716)
> It's punching down

I generally reject the premise of punching up versus down; but McMansion Hell is emphatically not punching down. Anyone who can afford a $1 million 5000+ square foot house deserves very little sympathy for their bad taste.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by averagewall on Monday June 26, 2017 @06:30PM (#14640939)
It's OK to be mean to people because of the socioeconomic class they belong to? They're all humans just like each other. I bet half of poorer people would opt to design their own house in an ugly way if they had the chance. They just don't have the chance. Some of them certainly try hard though: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/543809723727647414
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by careersuicide on Monday June 26, 2017 @07:24PM (#14641262)
> It's OK to be mean to people because of the socioeconomic class they belong to?

No, see the first sentence where I say I generally reject the premise of the whole concept of punching up and down (I think there is such a thing as bad tactics). My point was, however, that if you're gonna use that framework, perhaps one percenters buying ugly houses aren't exactly a sympathetic group. Even more importantly, the OP misses the entire reason punching up and down is a thing. Being rich enough to afford a McMansion means you're pretty much guaranteed to be highly privileged. It'd be pretty silly, if you're going to talk about punching up and down, to believe that ridiculing the rich with bad taste is anything but a big ol' shoryuken. I mean, even I, someone who thinks you should treat people kindly regardless of background, roll my eyes at the thought of McMansion owners feelings being hurt because people think their houses are ugly.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by Applejinx on Monday June 26, 2017 @10:41PM (#14642178)
Also, the blogger skewers the exact pretensions of this class with hilarious skill and deftness. I can't tell you how many times I've seen some very motel-like painting or elaborately framed print up there captioned 'An Art', and that always makes me grin: it criticises a very real and troubling class tendency to commoditize and stupefy art, and to see this tendency called out for mockery pleases me.
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by falsedan on Monday June 26, 2017 @06:57PM (#14641118)
Thanks for making my point, but thank you to the undeservingly moneyed lumpenproles who spend their wealth on the wrong things and also in a way which deserves ridicule.
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by mcphage on Monday June 26, 2017 @09:07PM (#14641791)
Your point was that it's punching down. Careersuicide [correctly] responded that it's not punching down, it's punching up. Tell me again how that make your point?
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by falsedan on Tuesday July 04, 2017 @09:11AM (#14695642)
> Anyone who can afford a $1 million 5000+ square foot house deserves very little sympathy for their bad taste

You are disparaging people who are not as knowledgeable as you (elitist); they didn't design the homes, nor approve the development, nor set the zoning. Their casus belli is that they are wealthier than you, and unaware that they're buying the wrong kind of house.

Making fun of rich people for buying stupid stuff isn't punching up; it's making fun of their ignorance, regardless of whether they have more or less money than you, and can be equally applied to poor people making poor purchasing decisions.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by chadgeidel on Monday June 26, 2017 @05:53PM (#14640699)
Builders and purchasers don't care about architecturally sophisticated dwellings because they are too busy "keeping up with the Joneses".

I disagree with your assessment of elitism. If every "critique" is "elitism" then I really don't know how to respond.

Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by falsedan on Monday June 26, 2017 @06:52PM (#14641089)
There's critiquing, and there's constructive feedback.
Re:Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts by jonahx on Monday June 26, 2017 @11:28PM (#14642369)
> The commentary applies equally-well to pre-fab apartments, shotgun shacks, suburban housing developments, etc. It's poorly-targeted.

That's a false equivalence. Shotgun shacks and suburban housing developments aren't trying to be something they're not. And that is why you don't find ironic commentary like this directed at them.

When you put on airs, you get cut down. Is that mean? Probably. Sometimes it's also appropriate.