Honestly, I learned to code with vim, and it never struck me as particularly complicated. The commands follow a pretty consistent logic... the defaults aren't great but it took me one google search to find out what a vimrc file is.

emacs on the other hand, even as an experienced programmer, I found near unusable in its default and after a week of frustration with all the inconsistencies and oddities gave up on it. Which is a shame because obviously it is the more powerful of the two. I wish someone would create a modern editor in the spirit of emacs.

Agree on Emacs. Tried to get into Emacs few times because I am not the biggest fan of VimScript (I use it quite often though). So, I thought that it's worth learning Emacs with a proper Lisp underneath. But I failed everytime and getting back to Vim felt just natural and as easy as turning on my PS4.

One thing with emacs is that some Alt bindings do not work over remote connections. Maybe it was my fault but I could not get all Alt bindings to work.

> One thing with emacs is that some Alt bindings do not work over remote connections. Maybe it was my fault but I could not get all Alt bindings to work.

Were you connecting from a Mac to Linux? Emacs on OS X has Esc as meta by default, which means you need to redefine the meta key to be Alt or else it's basically unusable.

I get the feeling Emacs is where things like Atom and VS Code are looking for a lot of inspiration.

Unfortunately, they used bloated Electron framework.

Little over a year ago I began sketching out a native Mac OS editor, taking ideas from xiki, ia writer, emacs.

The core API was mostly fleshed out. I just got wrapped up in personal life stuff. Might have to take another look at that soon.

I think part of the reason Atom and VS Code use Electron is for cross-platform support. Assuming Github and Microsoft were going for market share, making a native Mac OS editor would somewhat limit their reach.

You're right that emacs without any config is annoying. Check out Prelude (https://github.com/bbatsov/prelude); it's a really nice set of defaults for emacs.

I think emacs is the modern editor in its own spirit: none of the imitations come close.

Recommend you checkout http://spacemacs.org/ It's an emacs with sane defaults and built around Evil (emacs vim plugin)

As a counterpoint, you shouldn't have to tell anybody about storage solutions and preconfigured configs. Once you start doing that, you're talking about solving problems that don't exist in other editors.

Given that there are quite a few editors where people tend not to like the defaults (Vim, Emacs, VS Code, and Atom come to mind, at least for me), it sounds like what you're saying is "editors that beyond the specific set that have these problems don't have these problems", which doesn't seem terrible informative.

No matter how much you tweak it, you will never even start to scratch an experience like Visual Studio. Vim is a fundamentally weaker platform.

Meh. I've used both and disagree. Visual Studio is a better IDE. Vim is a better text editor.

Has anyone tried VsVim [1]? It is the best vim experience I've had in any other editor. And I've already tried Sublime's, VSCode's, and others. Most of the vim functions I use are there, but it's been a while since the last time I used VisualStudio, so I don't recall the ones with problem. You can even plug in relative line numbers [2].

[1]: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=JaredPar...

[2]: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ZoltanKl...

The biggest issue is you're still tied to the real crappy windowing of VS, not the much better ones of vim or tmux.

VsVim is getting really good though, it even reads your vimrc these days.

Either many many thousands of professionals are blind to the awesome power that is windows plus visual studio or maybe people value different things and having made an informed analysis decided to use other things.

> Pretty much everyone knows the price of admission to using tools like Vim and Emacs is the time investment in config and learning the quirks.

To me, the real hurdle to vim (or emacs) isn't configuration : it's learning vim (or emacs). That muscle memory doesn't come from a .vimrc file, and it doesn't come overnight. Is that what you meant by "quirks"?

Muscle memory only comes after using your editor of choice for a considerable amount of time. With Vim, as a mnemonic, internally talking with the editor is the best way to go: for instance, if you need to change the content of a string literal like "hello world" just think Change Inside ". To me learning Vim is essentially learning a live programming language.

This can be said about anything, though. You still have to develop muscle memory for shortcuts and menu paths in other applications.

It can be said about anything, but it obviously applies more to CLI based editors since literally everything requires specialized muscle memory. Take a super simple example : Unless I've literally never used a computer before, I don't need new muscle memory to copy or cut out a block of text with VS Code, or Sublime, or Atom.

It's the same story with the muscle memory though. Build it up once, then the effort of learning new things is not very large.

I don't think anybody doubts that there's a steep learning curve and some investment required to get set up, but you get a completely custom user experience out of it. And if you stick with it for years you're definitely getting your investment back.