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Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by titojankowski on Monday April 17, 2017 @01:42PM (#14132877)
Sweet, so what should we build to change this? Giant carbon-sucking machines, cube-sats pointed at glaciers? (planet labs is doing cool stuff in this space, including a project to count every tree on Earth every day). Solutions welcome!
Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by spodek on Monday April 17, 2017 @07:39PM (#14135382)
At a low level:

- Have fewer children

- Burn fewer fossil fuels (less driving, flying, heating, cooling, more wearing sweaters at home in winter, etc)

- Eat less meat

- Develop technologies to create energy without fossil fuels

At a higher level

- Stop associating consumption and material accumulation with happiness

- Stop targeting growth (population, GDP, etc) as solution to so many problems

- Take personal responsibility for what you do. Stop saying if others don't change my change won't make a difference. You are responsible for what you do even if others don't change.

At the top level:

- Change you beliefs and goals so that instead of asking others, you find what you can do and do it. There is overwhelming amounts of information for what you can do already on the web. If you want to act, act.

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by crazy2be on Monday April 17, 2017 @09:19PM (#14135812)
I'm not convinced having fewer children will help anything and I wish people would stop repeating this. People emit very few greenhouse gasses as a virtue of their existence, the extreme majority of them are emitted by lifestyle choices.

Even in developed countries the differences are stark. Qatar emits 54.7 tons of CO2 equivalent per capita, the United States 24.3 tons, Germany 12.3 tons, Switzerland 7.2 tons. A difference of almost 10x, with countries that all have similar standards of living! In a relatively undeveloped country like Burundi, the emissions are a mere 0.4 tons per capita[0]. A difference of literally 100x!

The best fix is a revenue-neutral carbon tax, with import tariffs on goods from countries that do not have such taxes (i.e. China). This internalizes the externalized costs of CO2 emissions, automatically encouraging development of more energy-efficient everything.

[0] Data from 2000, unfortunately, but the numbers have not changed in magnitude since then. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhous...

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by titojankowski on Monday April 17, 2017 @09:44PM (#14135905)
Have either of you checked out Bret Victor's "What can a technologist do about climate change?"

http://worrydream.com/ClimateChange/

Would be cool to hear how it resonates (or not) with your perspectives.

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by averagewall on Monday April 17, 2017 @10:11PM (#14136003)
Having fewer children is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The only reason we care about the environment is because it serves people. It's like trying to prevent cancer by having fewer children - fewer people will suffer from it!

Children are also important to us adults. We need them to indirectly take care of us when we're old by keeping the economy around us functioning and providing services and for us. Some western countries are facing potential problems with aging populations and not enough young people to support them. That's big and important. Possibly more important than global warming. There's no point having a stable environment if you die from a treatable disease because there are no doctors available.

Whenever there's a problem or a risk, and you're deciding what to do about it, one option is always "do nothing". We don't _have_ to stop climate change. If stopping it causes more harm that letting it continue, then we would be wrong to stop it.

So what's the expected cost of climate change?

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by ocschwar on Monday April 17, 2017 @02:06PM (#14133065)
Train tracks in place of highways, for starters.

Windmills and panels everywhere.

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by titojankowski on Monday April 17, 2017 @02:51PM (#14133402)
Yea totally! Does Hyperloop count as train tracks? I wonder what upcoming inventions in windmills look like...
Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by flukus on Monday April 17, 2017 @08:08PM (#14135516)
> Yea totally! Does Hyperloop count as train tracks?

Not until it exists.

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by ocschwar on Monday April 17, 2017 @03:46PM (#14133836)
Met a guy who was trying to sell a setup to plasma-fy the air along the edges of turbine wings to squeeze a bit more efficiency.

There's room for improvement still.

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by titojankowski on Monday April 17, 2017 @05:04PM (#14134414)
Wow crazy, I don't understand plasma-fy tho...some device on the edge of the windmill blade would change the nature of the air to reduce friction?
Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by ocschwar on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @03:42PM (#14142201)
Yes. Not necessarily reduce it, but change the profile around the blade to get more out of the wind.
Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by jimnotgym on Monday April 17, 2017 @06:51PM (#14135106)
Perhaps what we really need is political will. It has been much said in the UK that wind power has made various great strides forward, in terms of being able to operate in a greater range of wind speeds for example. This is in pursuit of EU green energy targets. With Brexit it sounds like the government are keen to resort to fossil fuels. Luddites
Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by nickbauman on Monday April 17, 2017 @02:08PM (#14133073)
Plant trees. Lots of them.
Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by titojankowski on Monday April 17, 2017 @02:49PM (#14133384)
Anyone working on new tech to plant trees more efficiently? Or engineering trees optimized for carbon sequestration?
Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by thinkcontext on Monday April 17, 2017 @04:10PM (#14133991)
Technology is not the biggest challenge to reforesting, people are. What good is planting millions of trees with robots if poor peasants graze their goats in the area that kill them all? To succeed you need to get them to buy into the outcome.

China's efforts on the Loess Plateau has been held up as a success in reforestation which has also benefited the local agricultural economy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK8JNXHcBMA

"The area of restoration on the Loess Plateau in China is the size of Belgium and thousands of years of subsistence farming had made it barren and infertile. In 1995 the Chinese Government, with support from The World Bank, took drastic action to rehabilitate the plateau, and local people -- seen as both perpetuators and victims of the devastation -- became part of the solution. They completely transformed 8.6 million acres of wasteland into hyper-productive land. This caused a 300% increase in agricultural income and enabled millions of local family farmers to break free from entrenched poverty."

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by titojankowski on Monday April 17, 2017 @04:55PM (#14134341)
Thanks, I watched the whole video. A great success of natural capitalism. I wonder how drone surveys, satellite mapping, and synthetic biology could extend this 35 sq-km success to 3,500 sq-km and beyond, augmenting people's needs and efforts. As said in the video, let's "properly understand the miracles performed by trees" to make this more profitable and spread everywhere.

I also agree with the farmer who said "what about our children, they can't eat trees!!". There's an opportunity for climate change solutions need to be communicated at human timescales (days, months, years). Decades are too hard to imagine.

Thanks for the video!

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by thinkcontext on Monday April 17, 2017 @09:07PM (#14135764)
Perhaps its not exactly the best example of capitalism given that it was centrally planned.

Glad you found it interesting. In the text accompanying the video they link to more videos in the series from Ethiopia and Rwanda, with similar projects to rehabilitate the land.

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by titojankowski on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @10:27AM (#14139060)
Food is key. This inspired me to re-read the 4 pages on Food in "Sustainable Energy without the hot air": https://www.withouthotair.com/c13/page_76.shtml

(ps I just put this great book up on github. The author passed away, would love ideas to re-release the CC content.

Specifically, merging the short Food chapter into a nicely formatted single medium-type article would be a good step for readability: https://github.com/titojankowski/sustainable_energy_without_...)

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by titojankowski on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @11:55AM (#14139869)
Ok it took an hour but I reformatted the "food" chapter on my blog as an experiment in readability.

http://titojankowski.com/sustainable-energy-without-hot-air-...

Thoughts?

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by specialist on Monday April 17, 2017 @09:28PM (#14135847)
Centralized planning == state capitalism. Private capitalism is not the only variety.
Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by zokier on Monday April 17, 2017 @04:46PM (#14134278)
For the latter, I think the research and other work for using Paulownia trees for carbon sequestration qualifies. I do seem to recall that there was some attempt to further cultivate it to be more suitable for that purpose.
Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by titojankowski on Monday April 17, 2017 @05:02PM (#14134400)
Thanks! I hadnt heard of Paulownia before. 3-10x more sequestration than the average tree: http://paulowniabg.info/?page_id=56

One challenge with plant-based sequestration is that the carbon is released when the tree dies/decomposes. I wonder how planting more trees will balance out at the decade-century scale.

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by discreteevent on Monday April 17, 2017 @05:21PM (#14134512)
Cut them down when mature and use them as building material.
Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by titojankowski on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @10:20AM (#14138998)
Wow cool, at first I said "but the CO2 gets released when the building burns down", so I looked into it. Apparently wood has a ton of benefits, basically it doesn't release much of the CO2 if it just sits there (http://www.awc.org/pdf/education/gb/ReThinkMag-GB500A-Evalua...). And it takes far less energy to grow a tree than the respective amount of concrete/other building materials (http://www.treehugger.com/green-architecture/new-study-confi...). So wood->building materials is a great option. Right on!
Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by burkaman on Monday April 17, 2017 @03:15PM (#14133629)
Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by titojankowski on Monday April 17, 2017 @04:33PM (#14134172)
"Since it is generally advantageous to have a heterogeneous mix of tree species planted in the same area, the planting UAV is capable of carrying a mix of seeds and control their planting pattern.​"

Cooooooooooool. Thanks!

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by Mz on Monday April 17, 2017 @09:48PM (#14135922)
Sweet, so what should we build to change this?

A lot more passive solar architecture and pedestrian-friendly spaces.

Re:Receding glacier causes Canadian river to vanish in four ... by roughcoat on Monday April 17, 2017 @03:08PM (#14133561)
We should do nothing, because while interesting, this is a nonevent. Parts of that article are wildly exaggerated or outright incorrect, trying to make this sound like some big deal. It's really not.

Sometimes in nature, things happen quickly. Look up glacial surge, for example. Just because a river dried up basically overnight because it got beheaded, it doesn't mean there's some global catastrophe playing out. It just means the glacier receded to a point where the terrain favored the other branch.