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Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by vecter on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @02:56AM (#14095396)
> It can be shown that there is no algorithm that can generate the shortest program for computing arbitrary given data on a given computer [2, 9, 1]. In particular, our physicists cannot expect to find the most compact description of our universe.

This seems wrong to me. There exists no general algorithm to find the shortest program to compute arbitrary data, but we can surely find specific shortest programs to compute arbitrary data.

Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by vidarh on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @07:48AM (#14096726)
For any given state of matter and energy, there is a maximal number of possible states. Then, for any given computer existing in our universe there is a finite amount of accessible states, given that the expansion of the universe creates a horizon beyond which creates a limit to the volume we can read back data from.

Couple this with the fact that you can not create an algorithm that can arbitrarily compress any given input string, and then for any given computer you can find input strings that requires more state to represent than said computer can contain. Even if you allow for output over time, for any given such computer you can find an input string that is sufficiently incompressible that finding the shortest possible representation requires more intermediate state than the computer can contain, and that can be true even if a sufficiently large computer will make it possible to find patterns that makes the data very compressible.

In fact, that is what the article is pointing out: The universe may be a lot more regular than it appears, but it is possible that we may never be able to determine what the patterns are because it may be impossible to hold or compute over enough state to be able to determine what the patterns are in a way that lets us identify the patterns.

It is also possible that it turns out to be possible to easily create such a minimal program, but the article also points out that the vast majority of possible universes are incompressible.

For us to be able to compute the most compact description of our universe we 1) need to be in a compressible universe (or the description will subsume the totality of the universe itself), 2) need to be in one where the shortest possible description can be computed with the intermediate states possible to contain within the observable universe.

As the article points out, without additional knowledge of what type of universe we are in, the odds are firmly against us in that respect.

Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by RobertoG on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @05:21AM (#14096041)
"we can surely find specific shortest programs to compute arbitrary data."

That would be what the scientific method is about.

Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by Ono-Sendai on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @07:23AM (#14096601)
the general problem is uncomputable. but for some specific data outputs we may be able to find the shortest program.
Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by vecter on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @05:32PM (#14101970)
Woops, that's what I meant to write.
Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by tmsldd on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @04:03AM (#14095695)
If you consider that our brain is a computer, then your argument isn't valid.
Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by goatlover on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @05:22AM (#14096047)
Our brain isn't a computer. That's the most recent metaphor we've used to try and make sense of the three pound organ in our heads.
Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by chriswarbo on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @08:26AM (#14096929)
Our brain is a computer. That fact may or may not offer useful insights on the properties of brains that we care about.

Likewise, our brains are engines, converting energy from one form to another, and hence governed by thermodynamics. Again, that fact may or may not be useful for investigating properties of the brain we care about.

Our brains are also matter, meat, networks, made of atoms, and squishy. These are all facts, they may or may not be useful.

Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by goatlover on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:34PM (#14109113)
Or our brain is a telegraph, the world wide web, an orchestra, a theater, a tv, millions of mindless bots, etc.

We use metaphors to help understand things we lack a literal explanation for, or the full explanation is complex and ongoing (neuroscience, biology, chemistry).

Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by tmsldd on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @09:54AM (#14097670)
Profound and inspiring! Thanks for your input.
Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by NikolaeVarius on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @06:55AM (#14096469)
Computers were literally the name of people who number crunched for a living. Human brains are by definition the original computer
Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by tmsldd on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @07:15AM (#14096566)
Counter Argument: Please answer the question: 1+1=? Congratulations, you are a computer.

(And that's probably a very difficult question, considering you had to acquire the concept of symbolism, numbers and relationships)

Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by ThomPete on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @06:09AM (#14096239)
We are pattern recognizing feedback loops with memory. How is that not like a computer?
Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by psyc on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @07:13AM (#14096558)
Like is the operative word.

Also: https://imgur.com/a/Bg9WH

Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by ThomPete on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @07:45AM (#14096709)
Sure just as you are like me but different or i am like a monkey but different. We are all simulating a reality.
Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by psyc on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @01:40PM (#14099888)
I agree that computation is the best metaphor we have to date, for everything.
Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by simonh on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @07:25AM (#14096617)
We're special!
Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by vecter on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @04:04AM (#14095702)
Please expand
Re:A Computer Scientist’s View of Life, the Universe, and Ev... by tmsldd on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @04:12AM (#14095739)
See Marr's 3-levels hypothesis. If we "run" an algorithm able to find a program to compute arbitrary data, there must to exist that general algorithm. We (just) need to copy it and implement in silicon..