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Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by henrikschroder on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @06:29AM (#14031138)
> Oh, and there were 6 of us, in a 3 bedroom apartment.

This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing. What on earth can make adults choose to share their home with a stranger? Why isn't there intense pressure for building many small apartments, rather than building larger apartments that are meant for roommates? Is it connected to the equally weird college dorm roommate system?

Why are people accepting a situation where they live together with someone they don't like? It's such an obvious recipe for misery!

Who perpetuates this system?

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by Anderkent on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @07:44AM (#14031519)
> This is such a weird American phenomenon, the whole roommate thing

I think you're just sheltered; in every country in Europe that I lived in or had friends live in (Poland, UK, Portugal), students and young professionals flatshare. Or live with their parents, but it comes out to the same thing. If you're not already independently rich, you can't afford a single bedroom flat on your own.

The simple fact is that a two bedroom flat split two ways is always going to be cheaper than two single-bed flats. There's obvious efficiency in using the space effectively - no point in every single person having their own kitchen, bathroom, living room. Also, it makes sense that most flats built are 2-bedroom or bigger; that way they can be used both as flatshares for young people, and flats for families.

You don't have to live with someone you don't like - you get to pick your flatmates.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by wolly on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @09:09AM (#14032154)
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by henrikschroder on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @01:31AM (#14039913)
Thanks for your comment, and that of others. It appears that my culture is the odd one out where flatsharing is viewed very negatively.

Sure, it's not non-existent, I have many friends who have done it at some point in their lives, but it was always with existing friends. Advertising for a roommate, i.e. inviting a stranger to share your place is very unusual.

People's expectations of privacy are simply much higher.

The cheapest form of housing for college students is one where you share a kitchen and a living room with a bunch of other people, but everyone has their own private bedroom and bathroom with a door that locks. College dorms is just not done.

It is possible to rent a room in someone else's apartment, but usually in that arrangement the apartment is built such that the part that's rented out is a bit more off, has it's own bathroom, and has its own front door.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by rmc on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @10:19AM (#14032833)
Yes, but when Americans (e.g. college students) talk about "roommates" they mean they share a bedroom! Literal roommates
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by doubleunplussed on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @10:58AM (#14033306)
As an Australian in the US, it seems that term is ambiguous.

When a college student talks about their roommate, yeah that's the freaky situation of being an adult and not having your own bedroom.

But on other contexts it just means what I would call a "housemate". You're not actually in the same room.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by the_watcher on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @12:17PM (#14034301)
This is not true. Sometimes it refers to this. The vast, vast majority of the time, they are referring to someone who has their own room in the same apartment. Source: I had "roommates" in the way you refer to it in college, and after graduating, most people who I describe this to are actually shocked that this happened after freshman year.
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by Anderkent on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @11:53AM (#14033993)
Nah, that's pretty exclusively a college dorm thing, where it has a pretty direct relation to the price of the dorm.

(my uni had both twin and single rooms, and the twin was maybe 60% of the price)

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by pitaj on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @10:45AM (#14033145)
Only in dormitories. Roommates in an apartment don't normally share rooms.
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by jarboot on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @10:44AM (#14033125)
We don't. I'm an midwestern american college student and "roommate" means "someone that shares your living space" whether that be sharing a room to sleep or just sharing kitchen/bathroom/living room space. The only alternative I've heard is "suitemate" in suite-style dorms.
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by magic_beans on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @11:56AM (#14034021)
That's not true. Roommate almost always means two people sharing one apartment with their own bedrooms. Dorm-mate, on the other hand, specifically means two college students sharing a dorm room with two beds.
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by eli_gottlieb on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @07:50AM (#14031557)
Two factors perpetuate this:

1) Americans have a self-hating working class.

2) American home-owners are politically organized, and constantly lobby to prevent the construction of both new single-family houses and apartment buildings in general.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by arcanus on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @10:24AM (#14032888)
> American home-owners are politically organized, and constantly lobby to prevent the construction of both new single-family houses and apartment buildings in general

That's over-generalizing. Many locations in the USA have sensible zoning. SF is the exception.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by lovich on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @02:31PM (#14035823)
Boston's another hub and large parts of the metro area dont allow increasing housing density easily
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by thatwebdude on Friday April 07, 2017 @11:07AM (#14060300)
Agreed, in the Midwest they're building new 2,500 sqft. homes every 6 months around here. (Quite poorly BTW)

Every 5 or 10 years an entirely new development emerges.

Any hindrance occurs to municipalities without room to grow. And for city zoning, it doesn't appear they have an issue "building up" instead of out.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by eli_gottlieb on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @05:35PM (#14037436)
I live in Somerville, MA, and we had an article showing that only 22 buildings in our whole city are legal to build again under current zoning codes[1].

[1] -- http://www.vox.com/2016/6/16/11948630/somerville-zoning-ille...

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by 21 on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @09:35AM (#14032396)
It's funny, that I kind of did things in the wrong order.

When I was in my 20s, I lived alone in a nice place, as a developer I could afford it.

Now in my 30s I live in a shared apartment in London, I can technically afford to live alone, but I'd rather save the money (it would be twice as expensive).

It's not as bad as I had feared, and the community aspect can be interested, it can also be very bad if you end up with the wrong people (noise, ...)

All in all, I don't regret it.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by k-mcgrady on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @08:26AM (#14031777)
It's common in lots of places outside the US. You have a few choices:

1. Live with parents

Not something most people want to do past a certain age.

2. Live with friends

People seem to be moving abroad more these days leaving you with friends all over the world, but possibly none currently in the city you live in.

3. Live with significant other

Fine until the relationship ends and someone needs to move.

4. Live with strangers

You meet new people, if you don't like them it's easy to just move somewhere else and try again.

The '6 of us in a 3 bed' thing is insane and unrelated to the living with strangers point.

Where are you from that sharing a home with strangers is such a strange concept? Who have you lived with instead? If you were able to afford your own place you're either very lucky or live somewhere very inexpensive because even in smaller cities that's not an option for most people.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by henrikschroder on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @01:54AM (#14039996)
> Where are you from that sharing a home with strangers is such a strange concept?

Sweden.

When I went to university, I had a student apartment. It was cheap and tiny, 18m^2. There was a slightly cheaper student housing option where you would share a living room and a kitchen with other people, but in those everyone has their own private bedroom and bathroom with their own front door. Some of my friends rented regular, small apartments in the city. Some shared apartments, but always with existing friends, people they'd known for a while and knew they'd get along with.

As you exit university, you lose your student housing, but if you have a job you can usually afford a small apartment, a studio or a 1BR. The amount of people sharing an apartment with others at this age is even lower.

Eventually, most people get into a relationship, and move into a larger home as needed, and this is where the attitudes between the US and Sweden are the most similar, if you have a family and kids, most people get a house of their own.

One difference between the US and Sweden though is that there is strong political pressure for construction companies to build small apartments. In the US there's political pressure to build low-income housing and accessible housing, but for some reason no pressure for making sure everyone gets their own apartment?

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by k-mcgrady on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @09:32AM (#14041934)
Interesting thanks for the info. I'm in the UK and generally here if you go to University you will get a student accommodation for the first. Then you'll get your own apartment with friends for the remaining years and this would generally carry on until you're in a serious relationship and can share accommodation with your partner. Personally having also tried the living by myself thing for a year I much prefer sharing a house with a few other people (and I'm very introverted). Living by yourself quickly becomes very lonely and living with new people quite regularly is a great way to meet friends and learn about other cultures, particularly if you're living in a cosmopolitan city. Of course the main issue is still cost but for I know a lot of people that can afford a 1br apartment but would see that as a waste of money when sharing is much cheaper with few downsides (unless you get stuck with terrible room mates, but generally people are ok).
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by henrikschroder on Thursday April 06, 2017 @12:52AM (#14047998)
> Then you'll get your own apartment with friends for the remaining years

That's still leaps and bounds from the American custom of advertising for a roommate, interviewing a bunch of candidates, and then picking one. There's a reason the "crazy roommate" is a trope used in American TV and cinema.

That is completely alien to me. :-)

> Living by yourself quickly becomes very lonely

Funny, that's a complaint I don't think any of my friends and acquaintances have had. I'm just gonna chalk that up to culture as well.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by k-mcgrady on Thursday April 06, 2017 @04:52AM (#14048949)
Just to clarify the first point I meant that at university you will live with friends for the remaining years (friends whom you met during the first year). After Uni people disperse around the globe so you often end up somewhere with no friends and choose to do the sharing with strangers thing.
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by NikolaeVarius on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @06:50AM (#14031266)
Why do you assume it is a western thing.

Have you ever been to Asia? It's extremely common in China/Korea/Japan

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by hkmurakami on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @11:43AM (#14033867)
Japanese people almost never have roommates. They instead live in apartments that are very small.

The flat sharing / house sharing movement is very young there and only applies to a very small number of young people.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by gsch on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @06:42AM (#14031219)
On the other hand, I think there are really good reasons for co-living beyond saving a bit of money. There's a great community aspect to it as well. On the occasions where I've lived by myself, I've mostly ended up bored and sedentary, whereas in co-living arrangements, there's always people to chat or cook with, hang out, etc.

Of course, I'm still in my late 20s, so take this with a massive grain of salt. But if my salary doubled tomorrow, I still wouldn't give up my flatshare. I don't see myself wanting to leave it for another several years.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by jklepatch on Friday April 07, 2017 @03:51PM (#14062996)
+1 for the community aspect.

I also could afford to live on my own but I prefer to have roomates.

I live overseas,where as a foreigner a personal network is even more important that back home.

Having roomates makes my social life easier. No need to spend so much energy meeting new people outside. There are often people hanging out in the living room. I rarely feel lonely and often meet new cool people,at home.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by bluedino on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @08:18AM (#14031705)
Plus, you aren't really there except for sleeping and maybe a meal. You're always at work, with friends, out to dinner, at the bar or coffee shop, hiking or biking outside...
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by eyko on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @11:37AM (#14033796)
I think your misunderstanding just comes from the use of the word "room". To make things simpler to understand: room does not always mean bedroom. There are many rooms in a house: living room, bath room, bed room. Roommate simply means someone you share some of those rooms with (usually bathroom, living room, kitchen...) but obviously not the bedroom.

So, in the case of "6 of us in a 3 bedroom apartment", then yes, they shared rooms, but it's not always the case (I would've expected 3 people in a 3 bedroom apartment). Perhaps parent meant 3 couples (6 people)?

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by true_tuna on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @04:55PM (#14045532)
California has adopted a system where new development requires approval from the people already there. If you like where you live you might block and attempt to change it. The evidence shows that in such a system people will block any and all proposed development, but being a great place to live with a vibrant economy and lots of job growth many new people arrive every year. More people need a place to live, no new housing == Crazy housing prices and everyone gets a roommate.
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by the_watcher on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @12:16PM (#14034279)
> What on earth can make adults choose to share their home with a stranger?

There's a really simple one: lack of funds to afford their own place.

Also, plenty of roommates are not strangers. I've lived with my brother and one of my best friends from high school, and really only lived with a true stranger during my first year of college, the first year I lived in Austin, and the first 9 months I lived in the Bay Area.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by Qwertious on Tuesday April 11, 2017 @02:27AM (#14085353)
What's with the cultural notion that everyone needs their own kitchen and batchroom and "living room" common room? If you want cheap rent, you need to par down what you need personally, and share everything that you don't.
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by cgh on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @12:26PM (#14034427)
The most crowded co-living situations I ever saw were in Amsterdam, a place with a dramatic shortage of affordable rental housing. They were a mix of students and newly working people.

> Who perpetuates this system?

Low-cost rental housing generally isn't a good financial proposition.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by wordpressdev on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @01:45PM (#14035352)
Most expat workers in Arabian Gulf (GCC) countries live in shared accommodations to cut costs, sometimes 8 people sharing a single room. Life is tough.
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by branchless on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @06:35AM (#14031172)
Why: because of the financialization of housing.

Why accept it? Westerners don't understand how their economies work to pass surplus value to the non-productive.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by Anderkent on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @07:47AM (#14031541)
> Why accept it? Westerners don't understand how their economies work to pass surplus value to the non-productive

Why do you think it's a question of understanding, rather than a moral obligation to help others?

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by branchless on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @07:36AM (#14041299)
The system decides. Charity after siphoning off labour is a poor second.

http://savingcommunities.org/docs/george.henry/helpunemploye...

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by Anderkent on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @10:04AM (#14042131)
How does that connect to your previous statement?

Yes, the system (and the people who build and make up the system) decide to distribute wealth to 'non-productive' people. That's a good thing, exactly because charity of the 'productive' people is not reliable.

Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by branchless on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @10:16AM (#14042223)
We are talking at cross purposes. The system directs wealth to rentiers, they are non-productive. The rich are the non-productive. The system does not allocate resources correctly, it's totally flawed.
Re:Why do developers who could work anywhere flock to the mo... by Anderkent on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @11:43AM (#14042924)
Then I think you need to talk in specifics, not general statements. When you compare our systems with the 'default' of having no system (i.e. anarcho-capitalism), it seems rentiers (i.e. owners of capital/land) are directed even more resources. So if you blame the system, you kinda have to be specific in what aspects you're blaming and how they could be improved.

It's also not necessarily bad that some wealth is directed to rentiers, if otherwise the wealthy would have no incentive to use their wealth productively.