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Re:Reverse Culture Shock by bandrami on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @08:35PM (#13881300)
Yup. I'm a "trailing spouse" for an American diplomat, and this is so true.

One thing that always, always, always happens to Americans when we repatriate is the "grocery store freakout". At some point, you will go to a grocery store, and freeze.

"Man..." you'll keep saying, "Americans really love breakfast cereal..."

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by 55555 on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @09:25PM (#13881579)
Very true! In the same vein though, the selection at places like Whole Foods is one of the best parts of coming home (from the third world).

One of the hardest things for me to adapt to is how "liberal" America has become. It's not an objectively bad thing, but I feel like I went into a coma and woke up 20 years later in a world I can barely relate to. As an example, I'm thinking about stuff like Miley Cyrus' performance. And a lot of the social justice stuff -- I really just missed a whole lot of it and I've literally had to learn tons of new words and concepts to catch up and not appear bigoted. Living abroad in a more "conservative" culture and then coming back and adapting with a snap of the fingers is tough. The weird thing is that I was considered "very liberal" when I first left the US.

The hardest thing of all is perhaps how violent and aggressive and loud and rude Americans can be (in public, to strangers). It can be downright frightening, coming from Asia.

Edit: Also, I can't stop bowing to people. Asian Americans probably sometimes suspect I'm racist.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by wtbob on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @09:53PM (#13881714)
> One of the hardest things for me to adapt to is how "liberal" America has become. It's not an objectively bad thing

One wonders, if the rest of the world is more cautious about this sort of thing, if maybe it's America that's in the wrong. Maybe other cultures deal with these things more sensitively or more rationally or just better.

My experience travelling abroad is that people seem more comfortable in their skins, which is sad given that America is supposed to be the place where anyone can make it.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by astrodust on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @11:01PM (#13882112)
> My experience travelling abroad...

Try doing that with a disability, being a visible minority, being a woman, etc.

America is far from perfect, but it's at least accommodating. In other countries they don't hesitate to throw people to the curb.

It's the little things: The wheelchair accessible stores and streets, the effort made to deal with vision impairments, institutions that are fighting for women's rights and so on. There are some places in the world where people with disabilities do not seem to exist, they're always hidden away.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by mahyarm on Thursday March 16, 2017 @12:33AM (#13882519)
America should not be comparing itself to developing nations, but other developed nations. In that they fall short in many things.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by ido on Thursday March 16, 2017 @05:22AM (#13883638)
I've lived in Austria for (almost) 8 years and Germany for a bit over 3 - I really like both for many reasons and neither could really be accused of being a developing nation.

Wheelchair accessibility is simply not a thing here, not even in Vienna and Berlin (let alone small towns or rural areas). E.g. you will often find the bathrooms in restaurants or cafes to not be accessible without going up or down a bunch of stairs.

Another example: get out of the big cities (and sometimes even just get out of the central areas of the big city!) and try to get vegetarian or vegan food in a restaurant. Sometimes the waiters won't even know what that means (when speaking in German, so not due to a language issue).

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by literallycancer on Thursday March 16, 2017 @09:03AM (#13884629)
I suspect this is because most European cities are extremely old by American standards, pretty much any street is going to have 100 years old buildings, some have the cultural heritage status, so if you want to make any changes, you need to get a permit, and sometimes making the building wheelchair accessible would cost more than to tear it down and build it again.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by amyjess on Thursday March 16, 2017 @10:47AM (#13885419)
That's one thing about old cities that people often forget about. A lot of people treat the age of their city's buildings as a point of pride. Old architecture is pretty, and there's so much heritage and historical significance.

But the downside is that they're not nearly as livable as new construction. Disability access is one. Nobody's going to install a wheelchair ramp in a 500-year-old building.

Here's another: air conditioning. I'm from Dallas and still live here, but my family is from New York City. I visit my ancestral home every few years, and what really jumps out at me every time I visit is the lack of central air conditioning. In any residential part of Manhattan, all you have to do is look up, and you'll see hundreds of room air conditioners hanging out of every building. The house in Westchester my aunt and uncle lived in when I was a kid had neither central AC nor heating; I have memories of staying in the guest room with this ratty old radiator grill that was encrusted with unidentifiable gunk. Actually, that whole house just felt ancient. Visiting my aunt and uncle felt like walking into a time machine because of how old their house looked and felt.

You don't see places like that in Dallas. Dallas is a pretty new city; the city proper didn't reach its current borders until 1977, and the suburbs were mostly farmland until the '80s and '90s. The northern part of Dallas where I grew up was built out in the late '70s and '80s, after central AC had become standard. The suburb where I work wasn't built up until the '90s and the '00s, and there are places not too far north of here that were built this decade. Everyone has central AC and heating here. The idea of going without is ludicrous, because all our construction is new enough that central AC and heating were incorporated in the design from the start. Now, yeah, the sweltering climate has something to do with it; state law requires landlords to provide AC at all times, and it's actually a crime for them to fail to resolve complaints about a broken AC within a certain amount of time. But a lot of it is just because Dallas is mostly newer construction.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by ido on Thursday March 16, 2017 @01:19PM (#13886854)
Even brand new (residential) construction doesn't have AC in Germany and Austria, although even 100+ year old apartment buildings will usually have central heating.

It's just not hot for a long enough part of the year to be worth the expense.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by bandrami on Thursday March 16, 2017 @02:45PM (#13887783)
Also I never, ever understood Austrian toilets. Why? Why? Who makes a flat-bottomed toilet?
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by bandrami on Thursday March 16, 2017 @09:34AM (#13884839)
Even the UN building in Vienna isn't fully wheelchair or vision impaired accessible, which kind of surprised me.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by mahyarm on Thursday March 16, 2017 @04:14PM (#13888750)
The vegan / vegetarian thing is more a culture thing than a developed nation thing. You can find that food relatively easily in buddhist and hindu nations for example, even though they are mostly developing nations.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by herbst on Thursday March 16, 2017 @03:28AM (#13883186)
From a outside perspective America seems like a developing nation in many perspectives. So I think both should be done.

The amount of homeless, jobless, bad education, a meme president and all that is nothing you find in 'your usual developed nation'

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by briandear on Thursday March 16, 2017 @05:14AM (#13883605)
More jobless in America? [citation needed]
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by herbst on Thursday March 16, 2017 @05:20AM (#13883629)
Sort by %: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemploym... given there are several developed countries with worse conditions
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by astrodust on Thursday March 16, 2017 @01:51PM (#13887191)
One day you'll wake up and realize that employment in America is always unusually high. During the depths of the last recession it barely crested 10%.

What makes it seem worse than it is has been the way these unemployed people are highly clustered today. There's counties with 50-60% unemployment, but they're low-population so they don't skew the national rate all that much. It certainly sucks to be in one of those affected areas, and I know people who are stuck there, but the big picture is a different thing.

America is far from a homogeneous thing, but it's also full of opportunity if you're able, willing and prepared to move to them.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by herbst on Thursday March 16, 2017 @02:04PM (#13887327)
I am honestly not that interested in America to wake up at some point and have crazy realizations about it. Its significant worse than where i am from (in every single metric), or the third world countries i just spend months in, and as stated above i was surprised myself how many other countries seem much worse than i expected.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by point78 on Thursday March 16, 2017 @02:22AM (#13882956)
America is way behind a lot of countries in every point you mentioned
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by astrodust on Thursday March 16, 2017 @01:57PM (#13887243)
America isn't solidly ahead in any given department, but despite the prevailing political climate in some states, they're still doing a better job on the whole than many if not most countries.

It's like America gets a B/B+ at least in most categories where some countries are more like A/A/D.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by amyjess on Thursday March 16, 2017 @10:19AM (#13885194)
America is way ahead of almost all of Europe in terms of access to transgender healthcare.

In most of Europe, it's not uncommon for trans women to be forced to crossdress in public in order to get hormones. It's not uncommon for trans women to be denied hormones for a number of stupid things: if you're attracted to women (you have to be 100% straight to get hormones in most of Europe), because the outfit they wore to the doctor isn't feminine enough (you have to be wearing a dress), because you have no interest in bottom surgery, because you don't specifically hate your penis, because you didn't play with dolls as a kid, because you've had any sexual thoughts about being a woman. You have to go out of your way to prove to the shrinks there that you're trans enough, and their standards are so ridiculous that they'd tell 90% of cis women they're not really women.

It varies by country. Denmark and Finland are the absolute worst about this. Denmark in particular has been condemned by Amnesty International for this [0]. Norway is pretty bad, but I've heard stories of people who found a sympathetic GP who's willing to go around the law (in Norway, it's illegal to prescribe estrogen for transition outside the gender clinic system, but a doctor can prescribe estrogen for other reasons, and doctors don't have to report their prescriptions to anyone). I've heard Spain is one of the least-worst countries, actually, so much that trans people from other European countries actually go to Spain for treatment. Same goes for parts of Eastern Europe (estrogen might even be OTC in some Balkan countries). The UK used to be horrible, but they've gotten better in the last 2-3 years or so, which is entirely thanks to a single private doctor (Dr. Webberly). In Germany and France, it depends on exactly where you live.

In the US, I can just walk into any informed consent clinic or in some cases the offices of certain GPs, sign a paper that says I know what I'm getting into, get my blood taken, and walk out with a prescription for estrogen once the bloodwork comes back.

Oh, and in some European countries, you can't even legally change your name unless you've had surgery. I know this is the case in the Czech Republic (you can take a gender-neutral name, but you cannot take a female name if you have testicles). It's sad, because access to hormones is better in the Czech Republic than in most of Europe.

[0] News article about it in English: https://www.thelocal.dk/20170303/amnesty-slams-denmark-for-d... -- Amnesty International's actual report, in Danish: http://amnesty.dk/media/2263/amnesty-transkoennedes-adgang-t...

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by point78 on Sunday March 19, 2017 @04:24PM (#13909406)
But at what price are you paying for these things in the US? A quick google search says in the thousands.

With free health care here I would imagine when you do get prescribed, the price is next to nothing. Even though you are jumping through more hoops here, in my opinion it's better to make it affordable than the insane prices the US has and easier.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by TorKlingberg on Thursday March 16, 2017 @05:52AM (#13883756)
The rest of the world is not a homogeneous place. 55555 specifically mentioned living in a "conservative" culture. Living as an American in a country like Bangladesh can be quite nice, but you really don't want to be a persecuted minority, or gay or similar there. That is NOT something America should learn from. A lot of countries are simply less developed, both economically and socially. There is no need to glamorize it.

That said development is not a simple linear scale. Each culture has good things others could learn from, but it's wrong to see low development level as some kind of purity.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by wtbob on Thursday March 16, 2017 @10:04AM (#13885073)
I wasn't thinking of countries like Bangladesh — I was thinking of countries like France or Germany!
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by rhizome on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @08:42PM (#13881339)
"Man..." you'll keep saying, "Americans really love breakfast cereal..."

Though it's true to some degree, I wouldn't go that far. My sense is that the higher the margin on a product or product-line, the more money the manufacturer and distributors have to purchase shelf space. Cereal, Chips, Crackers, Ice Cream, Mayonnaise.

The last time I was at the store I counted 21 separate varieties of Triscuit, 10-12 flavors over three sizes.

Don't freak out, it actually is weird.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by tptacek on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @09:19PM (#13881548)
Huh. That's a really good point. More of the value in a breakfast cereal is in "intellectual property" and less is on the inputs and labor that produces the marginal next box. I hope that's true, because it's a neat little explanation.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by jessaustin on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @10:38PM (#13881970)
That explains too much... why aren't high-margin products in other developed nations' grocery stores treated the same way? Or, if they are, why isn't breakfast cereal one of them? Perhaps because Americans really love breakfast cereal?
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by KJP191 on Thursday March 16, 2017 @06:58AM (#13884014)
My theory is milk. Breakfast cereal is designed to be covered in milk, but compared to North America and Western Europe, milk and milk products are far less popular in most of the world. I think I remember reading that there's even a biological reason, ethnic Europeans have some enzyme for digesting milk (and cheese etc) that others lack.

This would imply that other milk-drinking Western countries would also eat a lot of breakfast cereal. And indeed it's something I notice when I go back from China to Belgium or the UK.

(Disclaimer: I haven't been to the US, so perhaps Americans like breakfast cereal even more than Europeans)

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by bane on Thursday March 16, 2017 @01:09PM (#13886756)
American here, I grew up on breakfast cereal (for better or worse). Cereal seems to be one of those things that exploded in variety and marketability in the U.S. I've never seen anything like an American cereal aisle in any of the other countries I've been to anywhere in the world.

What I find really interesting though is how that's slowly starting to change as other countries start to adopt more of the quick-eat consumerist culture similar to the U.S. What's more fun is that the local solutions to snacks and cereals are usually very interesting and designed for local tastes.

The first time I went to Europe, 20 some odd years ago there really was a slim selection, mostly variants of Muesli mixes. When I was in Russia in the 90s, I really wanted some breakfast cereal and there was a big effort to get milk and some corn flakes. In Germany I had more selection, but not hugely.

The first time I went to Korea about 15 years ago it was the same.

More recently I notice the amount and selection of breakfast cereals is exploding on those countries. Most of my experience has been in Korea, and there are now full-on cereal aisles with an entire list of different products. Not as many as the U.S. but definitely getting there.

So what's fun it that not only do I get to eat all the American varieties, but as other countries add other cereals to their cultural inventories, I get to try and enjoy those as well.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by thatcat on Thursday March 16, 2017 @08:14AM (#13884365)
Yes, Scandinavian genetics are more likely to express code for lactase and so less likely to develop lactose intolerance.

US also subsidies milk production to keep prices reasonable, which may have a side effect of increasing the amount consumers will pay for associated products like cereal.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by Rapzid on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @11:19PM (#13882205)
It's possible the margins are not as high, or they are not as high vs other more popular products. It could be a combination of multiple factors at play. Certainly if nobody was buying cereals in the US the high margins would not be enough to sustain shelf-space spending, so that's a valid point.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by golergka on Thursday March 16, 2017 @02:01AM (#13882870)
I suspect that US producers have higher margins on sugary products because of corn subsidies.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by hawkice on Thursday March 16, 2017 @02:07AM (#13882900)
I'd say you're correct, but in a slightly more indirect way than many might assume (they might read it as, gov. gives money to company, therefore company has more money -- but they still compete with each other on price, so that doesn't totally make sense). But because corn is subsidized, the food is cheap on a $/calorie basis, which means customers can be less price sensitive, because it's all easier and cheaper than eating a non-corn-based meal. We see this reflected in the fact that cereal (a very generic term for a certain type of staple) is emphatically _not_ a commodity. People have types they like more -- so they can compete on something other than price, which lets profits go up. A good line of research to verify is to compare cereal demand elasticity to e.g. meat, where there are variations people like more than others, and it's semi-interchangeable, but because of price people treat it largely as a commodity.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by mixmastamyk on Thursday March 16, 2017 @03:14AM (#13883136)
Cereal has been pushed for decades by big corporations. It is cheap, easy to make in the morning, and keeps well. It is also unhealthy, but after such a long time of demonizing fat it still has a big following. For some reason it has somewhat dodged the bullet that soda took.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by hbosch on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @09:09PM (#13881498)
A relevant scene from The Hurt Locker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PgbNQU3cYo

In this scene, the character has just returned from a tour in Iraq defusing IEDs. The movie portrays him as a total pro in the battlefield, but stunned and anxious as he returns to civilian life. Great movie not just about war, but about the psychology of war and purpose.

Edit: here's a better dissection – http://www.cinemablography.org/supermarket-scene.html

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by icefox on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @10:01PM (#13881763)
A very unexpected reversal of that was upon returning I quickly realized that the various candy and snack food I had come to enjoy while living abroad in Norway just flat out don't exists in the U.S. While there I would pick up random stuff now and then and over time found favorites. While there is 100 feet of cereal it is only a few big companies and each individual choice is even given sometimes 3 feet of space. So I realized to my sadness (except brown cheese which I found in the little "international cheese" case) that while the American grocery stores give the impression of choice that is not as true as it seems.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by jschwartzi on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @11:06PM (#13882138)
I've noticed that the more skilled I've gotten at cooking, the less useful the 90% of the store that isn't raw vegetables, meat, and grain is.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by pm90 on Thursday March 16, 2017 @12:44AM (#13882568)
If you look around enough, you may find many "international stores" that stock on foods sourced....Internationally. Of course, the Indian/Chinese stores are a class in themselves, but you can also find the odd store that stocks products imported from Turkey or Germany etc.

This is MUCH easier in a big city of course. Houston is surprisingly good in this regard: not only can you find all kinds of groceries, but the restaurants serving different cuisines are absolutely terrific.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by vegardx on Thursday March 16, 2017 @09:52AM (#13884960)
Scandinavians living abroad are known to visit IKEA to get a taste of home. It's almost impossible to get any of the products abroad. Which makes sense, there's not that many of us.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @09:20PM (#13881553)
I just recently returned to the USA from living in China for 9 years, and damn, I think I have PTSD.

One night while I was asleep, there was a clap-clap-clap next to my window at 3 AM in the morning. I just assumed it was some old guy exercising early in the morning by clapping and walking backwards...not a weird thing in Beijing. I ran outside ready to confront whoever it was, and it was just...water drops hitting a leaf.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by xapata on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @08:45PM (#13881352)
Sometimes it's a big smile, "Man, there are so many options!"

Well, that's how it is when I'm just wandering around the store for fun. If I want to pick a toothpaste, it's frustrating that I need to make a tough choice for something so trivial.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by stevesearer on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @08:51PM (#13881394)
Reminds me of when Boris Yeltsin visited a Texan grocery store: http://blog.chron.com/thetexican/2014/04/when-boris-yeltsin-...
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by CalChris on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @09:46PM (#13881684)
But when I lived in Geneva, it was the opposite. They had an entire freaking shopping aisle for bricks of chocolate. I'd never seen a brick of chocolate before let alone an entire aisle of it. Trader Joe's has these bricks now.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by bandrami on Thursday March 16, 2017 @07:15AM (#13884085)
Fair, and in Scandinavia you'll find a similarly huge selection of fish pastes, or in Sri Lanka of tea. But having been to many countries in the world, I don't think even the largest grocery store I've been to outside of the US is the size of even a normal suburban Giant.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by gloverkcn on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @08:51PM (#13881395)
Coming back from India and going to Walmart.

so much space with nobody in it. Everything you need to live under one giant roof. There's 4 people at 4 registers and no line for any of them.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by ethbro on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @08:58PM (#13881442)
> There's 4 people at 4 registers and no line for any of them.

We are definitely not going to the same Walmart.

EDIT: To clarify, I know this is one of Walmart's strengths, but it doesn't improve my experience.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by ourmandave on Thursday March 16, 2017 @09:16AM (#13884719)
At my nearest Walmart, the 12-items-or-less "fast" lane is also the exclusive tobacco products lane which totally defeats the purpose. Buying cigarettes is also a recursive game of 20 Questions about brand, size, filter, we-don't-have-that-do-you-want-this-instead? Okay, brand, size, filter...

(And I see you'll be paying in pennies.)

</rant>

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by wavefunction on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @08:56PM (#13881434)
I enjoy visiting India (I'm an anglo American) but I always know I'm back in the US when I arrive into Houston and there's a fifteen-foot-tall banner advertising donut ice cream in the food court inside the airport.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by bandrami on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @09:06PM (#13881485)
I dunno... India is no slouch when it comes to absurdly sweet desserts. I used to get fresh custard apple covered in condensed milk as a "snack" in Mumbai.
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by pm90 on Thursday March 16, 2017 @12:45AM (#13882583)
Re:Reverse Culture Shock by NegativeLatency on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @08:42PM (#13881334)
I experienced a bit of this when I moved from SF to a less populated place.

I imagine it would be more shocking moving from another country.

Re:Reverse Culture Shock by kasey_junk on Wednesday March 15, 2017 @09:31PM (#13881611)
I have that experience going to a store less than 30 minutes from my house.

In my local stores there are feet of cereal aisle that all seems largely overkill. When I go to a suburban grocery store there are yards of it. I'm always baffled.