Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher than actual consumption

Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by UnbornSoul on Sunday March 05, 2017 @03:24AM (#13795095)

Not in Belgium as far as I know. Here 3-phase is only installed when people use heavy duty equipment. The only people I know with 3-phase are joiners.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by megous on Sunday March 05, 2017 @11:02AM (#13796506)

I'm in EU too. We had recently a blown fuse or something in the entire 5 story building, the result was sort of weird: lights were ok in the entire house, half of the power sockets in the flat were ok, half of the power sockets were without power. That's when I realized that each of these 230V circuits are probably connected to a different phase. (Perhaps so that the load gets distributed evenly)

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by Tharkun on Sunday March 05, 2017 @03:31AM (#13795109)

I'm not sure about that. Many old electric cookers required a 3-phase hookup. Newer ones don't seem to, so perhaps it's on its way out.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by the_mitsuhiko on Sunday March 05, 2017 @03:36AM (#13795118)

That sounds very unlikely. I would love a source for that. How do you hook up a cooker then without combining two phases?

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by rleigh on Sunday March 05, 2017 @06:13AM (#13795498)

All the places I've lived in (UK) used a 32A 240V radial spur with a dedicated breaker with the appliance hardwired, or a regular wall socket on the kitchen ring main, 13A 240V, with a shared breaker (lower power portable appliance). Never seen 2-phase wiring for domestic use.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by DanBC on Sunday March 05, 2017 @08:11AM (#13795861)

I thought, but I could be wrong, that UK cookers use a radial spur with a dedicated breaker, and that sometimes those breakers also include a standard regular wall socket, but this socket (and the cooker) are still on their own radial spur.

The cooker should never be connected to a normal kitchen ring main.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by DanBC on Sunday March 05, 2017 @03:19PM (#13798320)

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/electrical-professio...

> Q1.18 Appendix 15 of BS 7671: 2008 gives advice on ring final circuits and sharing/spreading the load around the circuit. Item (iii) suggests that cookers, ovens and hobs over 2 kW should be on their own dedicated circuit. Why can’t ovens of less than 3 kW be connected to a ring final circuit via a suitable connection point such as a socket-outlet or fused connection unit?

> Appendix 15 is intended to give guidance only. Such connection is not prohibited, provided that no part of the ring final circuit will be overloaded as a result.

> Regulation number(s)

> 433.1.5

So, not forbidden, but if you have new wiring the electrician is going to give the cooker its own circuit.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by rleigh on Sunday March 05, 2017 @06:43PM (#13799615)

Just checked in my new-ish flat where I have an electric oven only (gas hob). It's a 13A square pin standard wall socket, but does have a dedicated breaker, so it is indeed not on the ring main for the other wall sockets. It has a 32A MCB in the consumer unit (same as on the two main rings). Not sure if it's ring or radial without removing the socket.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by algesten on Sunday March 05, 2017 @04:21AM (#13795195)

One phase is the standard in UK and Spain too. You don't get the same amount of Watts outs of a hob wired with one phase, and most hobs seem to be possible to wire either way.

I'm trying to google a diagram, but I only find a bunch of forum posts that explain. For Neff stuff (the one we have), the connectors are numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

1-2-3 would be separate phases in a 3-phase home and joined together for a single phase.

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/neff-hob-t1-k40x2-wiring-...

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by the_mitsuhiko on Sunday March 05, 2017 @05:12AM (#13795355)

I know nothing about spain but the UK is the exception to all rules, particularly electricity wise. It evennused to have its own color coding and circuit design.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by KaiserPro on Sunday March 05, 2017 @03:46AM (#13795135)

we have 220 volts in europe, we don't need to combine phases to get decent wattage with out having to install bus-bars

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by the_mitsuhiko on Sunday March 05, 2017 @04:51AM (#13795286)

I am from Europe and here (Austria) you definitely need to hook it up with two phases and we get 230V at a 16A breaker.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by irixusr on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:31PM (#13797563)

Why can't you have a one (two w/ 180 deg) phase cooker?

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by joelhaasnoot on Sunday March 05, 2017 @10:54AM (#13796469)

Maybe not in existing homes, but new Dutch homes are have 3 phase 25A meters.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by baha_man on Sunday March 05, 2017 @02:50AM (#13795047)

Source?

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by bjelkeman-again on Sunday March 05, 2017 @03:02AM (#13795064)

http://electrical-engineering-portal.com/north-american-vers...

> Most European transformers are three-phase and on the order of 300 to 1000 kVA, much larger than typical North American 25- or 50-kVA single-phase units.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by bonzini on Sunday March 05, 2017 @04:48AM (#13795272)

That's the network transformers. Homes usually get single-phase 230V, while larger users get three-phase 400V.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by MrBuddyCasino on Sunday March 05, 2017 @05:46AM (#13795427)

Electric stoves in Germany are usually hooked up to a special 3 phase wire in the kitchen, but thats the only exception in can think of, at least for apartments.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by bonzini on Sunday March 05, 2017 @08:48AM (#13795974)

Oh, here in Italy we have only 3 kW power to each apartment, so gas stoves are prevalent.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by the_mitsuhiko on Sunday March 05, 2017 @04:52AM (#13795289)

That is absolutely not the case where I live (Austria). You get multiple phases into your home, at the very least to garage and kitchen.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by krzyk on Sunday March 05, 2017 @05:54AM (#13795441)

Nope, most electrical cookers need 3-phase connection and those are used all around Europe.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by ldp01 on Monday March 06, 2017 @02:09AM (#13801162)

bjelkeman-again is referring to kVA- a unit of power rather than voltage.

Systems which run a higher consumer voltage (e.g. 230V) will tend to use higher kVA transformers compared to the American system (~110V).

I believe this is because it is feasible to run longer cables when using higher voltage (higher voltage -> lower current -> lower thermal losses per metre of cable), hence it is economical to use fewer, larger transformers in a higher voltage system vs. a lower voltage system.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by bjelkeman-again on Tuesday March 07, 2017 @01:28PM (#13813124)

Sorry, my intent was to show three phase electricity to the home in most European countries.

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Re:Electronic meters’ false readings up to six times higher ... by bonzini on Thursday March 09, 2017 @11:21AM (#13830279)

And I was confused by living in one of the (apparently) few countries without three-phase electricity.

However, even here the network transformers do get three-phase.

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