News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
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Re:A profound apology by dang on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @03:49AM (#13762305)
You can't attack another human being like this here, regardless of who they are or how you hate them. It degrades the community. Also, I'm sure you wouldn't want anyone to place this kind of judgment on you.

Because this type of comment is not welcome here, I'm going to kill this one now, as well as the other ones in which you've been venting. Please don't vent on HN.

Re:A profound apology by victorhooi on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @01:24AM (#13761690)
I'm not really sure if your ahole comment is warranted?

Have you watched the source material?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTEDYCkNqns

It's not exactly like Travis is abusing the driver - if anything, it's the other way around. The driver had a bone to pick, and needed to vent - Travis obviously just wanted to go home, on what was obviously a night off.

The fact he actually took the time to try to listen to the driver, and explain things - that says something for him as a CEO. Sure, he gets frustrated at the end, but he certainly handled that level of abuse better than I would, and I suspect, better than many of the armchair commentators here.

Re:A profound apology by adw on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @03:27AM (#13762236)
> what was obviously a night off

Public figures don't get time off. It's one of the ugliest parts of the gig.

Re:A profound apology by ChuckMcM on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:49AM (#13761516)
In my experience the most effective agent for change is gratitude. Learning to be really thankful for the things that you value in your life, leads to giving them respect and leadership in your actions. I know that sounds waaaaay over the top but in my experience it has been the only way to get past emotional blocks and to change effectively.
Re:A profound apology by ktRolster on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:46PM (#13761210)
Sorry Travis; once an asshole, always an asshole;

No, people actually do change, you know.

Re:A profound apology by NegativeK on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:53PM (#13761252)
People do; grandparent's idiom isn't accurate.

But I've found that I don't have the mental fortitude to wait for them and see abuse meted out in the meantime. Deliberate assholery once, I'm going to be suspicious for a long, long time. Asshole twice, we're done.

Re:A profound apology by rhizome on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:35AM (#13761455)
Even so, what do we get for waiting anyway? Uber is easily supplanted, they're not special as a competitive force.
Re:A profound apology by NegativeK on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:08PM (#13765650)
I was being general. Uber has been a deliberate asshole more than once.
Re:A profound apology by JohnJamesRambo on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:47PM (#13761220)
Name some.
Re:A profound apology by muzzio on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:34AM (#13761449)
How about Bill Gates? Nobody could have seen him being the most prolific philanthropist of all time back when he was leading Microsoft in the 90's.
Re:A profound apology by Hydraulix989 on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:37AM (#13761469)
I don't know if those are orthogonal though (ruthless business leader and philanthropist). Andrew Carnegie is another great example.
Re:A profound apology by smallnamespace on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @01:38AM (#13761744)
Those qualities aren't necessarily orthogonal, but think about what it implies about how you should treat that ruthless capitalist.

Every dollar you gave to Bill Gates ended up being rather effectively used for good.

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Re:A profound apology by kbenson on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @03:22AM (#13762220)
Why don't you try pointing out where one of the numerous listed accomplishments[1] are incorrect, or only helpful to Bill Gates and his friends, rather than making unsubstantiated claims?

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundat...

Re:A profound apology by codr4life on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @09:55AM (#13764091)
Seriously? Who do you think wrote the Wikipedia entry, and why?
Re:A profound apology by kbenson on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @10:18AM (#13764314)
Then it should be easy to disprove, should it not?

If you bothered to actually read cited sources, you might find that there's criticism there as well. There is criticism at Wikipedia, backup up in some of the 153 cited sources.

Congratulations, by dismissing it out of hand without justification all you've done is remove any doubts as to whether you should be listened to on the topic at all. Hand-waving away massive amounts of information as propaganda because it's inconvenient to your view is not the action of a credible person.

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Re:A profound apology by kbenson on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @02:27AM (#13761995)
> He's not though. He's turning worse, owning the media makes it easier to pretend being mr Nice Guy. Bill has his head so far stuck up the elite ass by now that he's helping killing off less fortunate parts of the global population for profit to invest in oil and weapons. http://www.wakingtimes.com/2017/02/23/bill-gates-admitted-eu...

Stop trolling.

The only reasons you would post that link is if you either didn't read it, didn't care how truthful it was, or are truly incapable of seeing how irrational the statements in it are. That article is employing a classic "I'll prolifically link to sources which don't back my claims at all or have no credibility" tactic, and you, by linking to it are using the fake news tactic of hiding bad sources by burying then a few layers deep. You didn't do a very good job at it though, as the source article you linked to is far too irrational and willing to use unrelated appeals to emotion in lieu of actual reasoning.

Re:A profound apology by codr4life on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @09:54AM (#13764073)
I've followed Bill around, bad trees don't give good fruit; just because the information comes from a non-bought source and contradicts what you imagined to be true; that doesn't make it fake or turn the comment into trolling.
Re:A profound apology by kbenson on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @11:46AM (#13765344)
I didn't call out the source because it contradicted me, I called it out for poorly backed sources, wild exaggerations, and unfounded assumptions.

The article starts with "It isn’t clear if Bill Gates was veiling a threat[1] to help depopulate[2] the planet by 30 million people, if he was simply scare-mongering...". The links go to articles about how Bill Gates dad was the head of eugenics group planned parenthood. That one needs to be backed up, or perhaps they just don't know what eugenics means? Nope, apparently the second link going into the history and details, they know exactly what eugenics is, they just have a hard time between disassociating the (somewhat fictionalized!) history of the group from the current actions. An organization's founding and past actions don't necessarily factor in to their current goals and actions. Tying Margaret Sanger to Nazi policies (which she was against) without backing it up when there's evidence to the contrary[3] is yet one more reason to discount this source.

"[Bill Gates] who has been kicked out of India[4]". The linked article is about how India is funding a key component of an immunization program that used to by funded by the Gates foundation, because there was growing public sentiment that the local government should be handling certain needs itself to protect from outside influence. It goes on to say "[Senior health ministry official] Swaminathan, however, stressed there were no instances of influence found and the decision was only in part prompted by a wider perception about foreign funding of the program."

And that's just the first paragraph.

The trolling accusation is actually the least damning possibility I could come up with as to why you posted that, because the alternative is that you believed everything in the article at face value, and seriously, what the fuck? Do you really think that an interlocking web so self-referencing propaganda blogs, which either never link to a reputable source or when they do wildly misinterpret (or misrepresent) that source are a substitute for critical thinking and actual news? You've linked to the blogosphere version of the Weekly World News, and have done the equivalent of trying explain to everyone the wonders of Bat Boy[5]. Hopefully you were as self aware about it as the Weekly World News was.

1: http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/02/25/10-disturbing-facts-a...

2: http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/bill-gates-and-eugenics-the-w...

3: http://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/articles/sanger-hitler_eq...

4: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-health-bmgf-idUSKBN1...

5: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_Boy_(character)

Re:A profound apology by crimsonalucard on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:48PM (#13761226)
You. 10 years from now. Mark my words, remember this comment, come back here and tell me if you've changed.
Re:A profound apology by simplydt on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:01AM (#13761301)
Poster probably won't change even in ten years, see research by Dweck. Fixed mindsets are a powerful negative thing. I salute you for believing in the right thing, a growth, malleable mindset supported by modern neuroscience and neuroplasticity!
Re:A profound apology by JohnJamesRambo on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @10:41AM (#13764536)
I don't doubt I will change, but his or her comment was implying people can radically change and do a complete 180. In my experience in life so far, that almost never happens and I was asking for famous examples.
Re:A profound apology by flippe on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:49PM (#13761229)
I'm guessing (matter-of-factly) that you don't have a degree in psychology.
Re:A profound apology by brian_cunnie on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:53PM (#13761257)
IIRC, there were two traits that don't seem to change over the course of one's life: gregariousness, and level of anxiety.

Traits other than those two can change. Classic example: an alcoholic who becomes sober.

Re:A profound apology by mejari on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:16AM (#13761377)
An alcoholic that becomes sober is still an alcoholic, they are just in control over their alcoholism.
Re:A profound apology by brlewis on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:27AM (#13761419)
A rude person that becomes conscious of the way it comes across to act disrespectfully may still be an rude inside, but if he/she is in control of the disrespectful behavior then I count that as real change.
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Re:A profound apology by bnjms on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @03:11AM (#13762177)
This kind of relativism is what it's all about. The ends don't justify the means because the ends are part of the means. But here we don't have that problem because to us only the end is visible. Or, the issue here is that you think the change is pretend where another considers it part of completion of a full change.
Re:A profound apology by ktRolster on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @02:26AM (#13761988)
It's not pretend change, there is actual change in the behavior. That is something real.
Re:A profound apology by noobermin on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:51PM (#13761237)
I'm a different person than I was ten years ago. Some things remained the same, a few things changed.
Re:A profound apology by flippe on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:56PM (#13761275)
It's hard to quantify how "different of a person" you are. But if there's one thing reading psych literature taught me it's that traits like aggression and compassion (or lack thereof) are measurable and shockingly persistent in people over decades.

Circumstances, triggers, and incentives change wildly. The world is in flux. But people's attitudes generally are not.

Re:A profound apology by ktRolster on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:15AM (#13761370)
There's a huge difference between "can't" and "don't." People can change.
Re:A profound apology by kristiandupont on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @03:05AM (#13762152)
I have a degree in psychology and I would love to know which studies you are referring to there because I am not aware of such well established facts.
Re:A profound apology by piyush_soni on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:50PM (#13761232)
But we have made assholes extremely successful in the past (e.g. Steve Jobs). May be they all just want to follow the trend.
Re:A profound apology by gingerbread-man on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @01:21AM (#13761676)
Steve Jobs wasn't just an asshole, he was a phenomenally effective CEO. The problem with Kalanick isn't that he's brusque-- it's that his company isn't making money.
Re:A profound apology by dowjones on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @08:06AM (#13763353)
When Steve Jobs was 40, which Travis Kalanick is now, he had been kicked out of the first company he founded (Apple), and his second company (NeXT) was failing miserably. Pretty much everything that Steve is remembered fondly for -- his success at Apple and Pixar -- came after 1995.
Re:A profound apology by gingerbread-man on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @08:37AM (#13763522)
> Pretty much everything that Steve is remembered fondly for -- his success at Apple and Pixar -- came after 1995.

I strongly disagree. I think Steve is more remembered for the Macintosh than for the iMac/iPod/iPhone/iPad, at least amongst HN readers and the like.

Re:A profound apology by dowjones on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @09:09AM (#13763689)
You're changing the subject. You imply Travis isn't a good CEO because his company is losing money, whereas Steve Jobs was "was a phenomenally effective CEO." At the age of 40, he most certainly was not.
Re:A profound apology by gingerbread-man on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @10:18AM (#13764309)
The core presumption of my argument is that Uber isn't really succeeding as a company in the way that Apple (or even NeXt) did at the same "age." There are a lot of articles out there making the case that Uber's current business is not sustainable, and I tend to agree.

If NeXt wasn't profitable, it was because their sales hadn't yet caught up with their fixed engineering costs. Uber's unprofitability isn't because they're waiting for sales to grow large enough to cover the cost of their engineering operation, it's because they're heavily subsidizing the unit costs of their business.

Re:A profound apology by simplehuman on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:53PM (#13761254)
Travis is already successful. He is worth billions.
Re:A profound apology by bogomipz on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:58PM (#13761287)
So being a successful human being is gauged solely on the size of one's bank account?
Re:A profound apology by gingerbread-man on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @01:18AM (#13761664)
No, but saving thousands (millions?) of lives through philanthropy goes a long way towards making up for being kind-of-a-dick-sometimes.
Re:A profound apology by bogomipz on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @11:53AM (#13765442)
So its OK to act crappy now as long as you do something philanthropic later with the money you made while treating people badly? What is that called humanity arbitrage?

I don't think that basic human decency is something you should keep in a ledger to run credit and debits against.

Re:A profound apology by michaelmrose on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @01:38AM (#13761746)
If you got rich wholly or partly through wrong doing I don't understand how you can assign them any of the credit for giving some of it away.

Imagine if I mugged you for $100 and gave $20 to the red cross?

Re:A profound apology by vecter on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @02:32AM (#13762017)
Terrible strawman. Travis didn't mug anyone.
Re:A profound apology by nightski on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @11:00AM (#13764731)
The driver in the video claims otherwise.
Re:A profound apology by vecter on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @02:53PM (#13767615)
And his claim is ridiculous. Do you actually have a point to make?
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Re:A profound apology by simplehuman on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:57PM (#13761277)
Years from now, he will donate to charity and do philanthropic things and all will be forgotten. Just like another billionaire we know.
Re:A profound apology by piyush_soni on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @05:05AM (#13762612)
I'm not sure. Unlike other millionaires and billionaires (lot of them donate money), Bill is actually working directly on the fields and giving almost all his time to improving Health and Education in the world. That's something big and I really appreciate him for that. Had he been 'only' giving money, I wouldn't be moved much.
Re:A profound apology by simplehuman on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @11:05AM (#13764793)
For all you know, zuck and Travis will do the same in future.

Not sure if you know how many companies and lives, gates made bankrupt with his shady business practices. No different from Travis here.

Re:A profound apology by humanrebar on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:44PM (#13761194)
Brother J?
Re:A profound apology by noobermin on Tuesday February 28, 2017 @11:54PM (#13761258)
Jesus Christ[0]?

I hate to digress from this topic, so I won't in depth, but this whole "good tree, bad tree" philosophy is central to protestant theology and has had an impact on Western culture, while it is often not true, in my opinion.

Another variant is the "bitter water, sweet water" parable from Jude.

[0] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A15-...

Re:A profound apology by humanrebar on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @06:47AM (#13763000)
> ...is central to protestant theology...

tl;dr: Using the "good fruit" passage to condemn people as "bad people" is bad reading comprehension.

Those words were said by Jesus, so it's impossible to ignore, but it's also commonly misinterpreted.

In the place you cited, it's clearly talking about "false prophets", or people who incorrectly claim to speak God's truth. They look like spiritual people (Christians, even), but you can tell they're rotten by the "fruit" of their lives. And (continuing on to verse 20) some "Christian leaders" do not follow Christ and will absolutely be rejected by Jesus on their judgement day. That passage Jude is also about determining if someone follows Christ earnestly more than deciding they're hell-bound or something.

Also, if we back up in that chapter in Matthew a bit (1), we'll see Jesus clearly say you'll be judged by the yardstick we apply to others. If we condemn assholes, we'll be condemned as assholes. Which of us isn't an asshole sometimes?

That's not giving assholery a pass, though. It's just if we're really concerned about improving the world and fixing the behavior of others, we should address ourselves first so that we won't be ineffective in the task.

Anyway, I agree that the "know them by their fruit" passage is misapplied to judge someone as a rotten person. A rotten spiritual leader? Sure. But not deciding that someone hopeless case. You'll have to find another source of authority if you want to claim that.

(1) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A1-5...

Re:A profound apology by brlewis on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:22AM (#13761399)
Cited passage does not support the thesis that people cannot change.
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Re:A profound apology by noobermin on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @12:20AM (#13761396)
I don't know enough about Kalanick to say whether he can change or not. My opinion is actually similar yours, a lot has to will with will. Some people find it very difficult to change even if they want to, but if someone doesn't want to, the chances of them changes drops dramatically.
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Re:A profound apology by dang on Wednesday March 01, 2017 @04:28AM (#13762478)
We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines.