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Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by sleepychu on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:28AM (#13642762)
Resist! Use adblockers, disable cookies which live over the session by default, turn off JS if you can. When we get to critical mass, the advertising networks will come back with a new deal.

I wonder if we can come up with a widely adopt(able|ed) fingerprint that we can mask ourselves with, do any of these identifying bits actually make the web more usable for us?

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by ptero on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:42AM (#13643407)
IMO the hope lies in the fact that many vendors do not depend on privacy invasions in their main business model, e.g. Amazon or Panera will sell me roughly the same stuff regardless of which photos I was staring at yesterday. Selling my info on the side is a profitable add-on, but not strictly required for their main business. Maybe unnecessary tracking will eventually be competed away (this does require that a much large fraction of users starts caring about privacy).

One could also introduce confusers -- e.g., setup some "light anonymizing portals" that will add / swap / scramble non-critical cookie data. Done right it should be possible to keep almost all of web functionality intact without introducing a security nightmare, but to work well this also needs a viable business model.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by nojvek on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:10PM (#13649152)
For a lot of single page applications, javascript makes sense. Less data to load from server on subsequent requests. Your app is a lot richer.

Sure you can disable js, but for the majority the Web would be really broken without js.

As a culture, tracking is everywhere. Disabling js still logs your up, referrer and a bunch of other things.

I do like what uorigin/adblock and other extensions are doing.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by taf2 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:09AM (#13643231)
I could be mistaken but doesn't the use of an adblocker make you even more obvious - e.g. Your fingerprint becomes more easily discernible from the rest of the Hurd, you become more obvious. Sure you could disable JavaScript but then you have basically disabled any website that depends on it which might equivalently disable the parts of the internet you wanted to access. Also it becomes obvious that your location has a broken experience. Perhaps there is a balance of blocking and blending in. My view on this is what kind of websites are you visiting that make you feel you need to disable parts of it?
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by sleepychu on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:26AM (#13643318)
So my two points are perhaps overlapping.

I don't want people to track me on the internet, I think the main reason they bother is that they can show me ads that will be more interesting to me and make them more money. I can resist this by not showing the adverts to myself.

I'd like to make it harder for them to track me at all, though this is always an arms war it seems like I'm labeling myself at the moment. I'm not familiar with the technology they use to detect adblockers, does it detect "U-Block Origin (Firefox) Ver 17.3" or does it just detect "I can't seem to see the ad I know should be here, this user is blocking my ads." if it's the latter then my proposal to adopt a blank/universal fingerprint is willing to confess the single bit of information of whether the user has decided to refuse adverts.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by stymaar on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:45AM (#13643431)
> I could be mistaken but doesn't the use of an adblocker make you even more obvious - e.g. Your fingerprint becomes more easily discernible from the rest of the Hurd, you become more obvious.

In my generation (I'm 28), and even more in my cousins' (early twenties) it looks like the hurd is using an adblocker. And I'm talking about art students, acountants and chefs not IT engineers.

You just can't spend hours on YouTube videos without an adblocker on …

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by inetknght on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:09AM (#13644494)
> You just can't spend hours on YouTube videos without an adblocker on …

...actually, you can. But those hours won't be filled with the videos you wanted to watch. ;)

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by taf2 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @02:56PM (#13646580)
You could also pay ... $9.99 a month for ad-free youtube...
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by stymaar on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:57PM (#13647590)
Not available in my country. And I'm not sure any of the aforementioned people would be willing to pay for something an adblocker provides for free.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by angry_octet on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:25AM (#13644641)
If the browser reports that your OS is GNU Hurd you could only be RMS, so fingerprinting would be redundant.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by dagenleg on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:24AM (#13643307)
You can just enable those parts that you need while still avoiding vast majority of bloat. At least for Firefox there's uMatrix that allows for finetuning of what exactly you want to enable/disable.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by angry_octet on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:20AM (#13643283)
If the browser reports that your OS is GNU Hurd you could only be RMS, so fingerprinting would be redundant.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by Aoyagi on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:33AM (#13642778)
When we get to critical mass? More like "if". I doubt the majority (crushing majority even) of active web browsers will ever get to that length. Especially noscript, which makes some sites completely useless.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by coldpie on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:49AM (#13643451)
It makes many more completely usable. Floating headers and footers? Dead. Survey pop-ups? Dead. Pop-ups begging for your email address? Dead. Dumb fading in text and images? Dead. Needless whiz-bang animations? Dead. Site load times? Dramatically reduced.

Browsing the web with NoScript is far more pleasant, even if I have to sometimes open a menu to enable a couple domains to make a poorly developed website usable. I'd highly recommend it to anyone even remotely technical.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by Jailout2000 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:16AM (#13644551)
I'd love to use NoScript, but even being as technical as I am, the UI/UX for it makes it completely unusable for me. I'm not a Firefox primary user, I primarily am on Chromium Opera these days. The equivalent of NoScript is an extension called NoScript Suite Lite: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/no-script-suite-li...
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by pc86 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:33AM (#13643708)
TIL utilizing the most widely available programming language in the world makes a website "poorly developed."
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by logfromblammo on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:22AM (#13644612)
The worst offender I have seen in this respect is blog sites that won't even load static text without scripts enabled.

The complaint isn't with the scripting language, but with the blatantly unnecessary use of it.

One of the principles of human-friendly design is graceful degradation. For instance, you might design a museum for people that can walk. But some visitors might not be able to walk, so for them you install ramps and elevators when the stairs are not usable.

At the very minimum level, where someone is manually typing in HTTP requests, over a direct TCP connection to port 80 of your site, you should be returning something that can be read. Some people (or bots) may be fetching your site with curl or wget or links. Some people may be using screen readers. Some people may need machine assistance with pointer movement or scrolling. Some people may have extremely limited bandwidth, and won't automatically download images or frame contents.

If you can't degrade gracefully, your website is "poorly developed". So if you are utterly reliant on scripting to display anything at all, that certainly qualifies.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by coldpie on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:43AM (#13643780)
If your website requires active content in order to display plaintext, images and navigation, then yes, it is poorly developed. You failed to use the right tool for the job.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by pc86 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:58AM (#13643868)
Navigation is typically comprised of text and/or images.

Some websites need more than text or images.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by zzzcpan on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:05AM (#13643917)
Very few websites, maybe 1 out of 100, most offenders are just rendering content in the browser for some reason. Although even bigger offenders are not individuals, but companies, outright blocking access to client's websites without javascript. So far it's mostly Cloudflare, I think most people using the web without javascript hate them the most, hopefully the trend won't continue.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by OJFord on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:39AM (#13644235)
Cloudflare blocks access to sites behind it to users with JS enabled? Even if there's no JS on the site?

1. Is there anything the site owner can do to turn that off?

2. Is it because they inject some kind of DDoS prevention/tracking thing? This suggests crawlers load JS, which I wouldn't have necessarily assumed.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by throwaway2048 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @05:49PM (#13648046)
cloudflare can whitelist crawlers like google. The fact it blocks other automatic robots is more of a feature than a flaw.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by OJFord on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:27PM (#13648676)
Requiring visitors to have JS enabled isn't (a very good) feature.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by digler999 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:26AM (#13644089)
abusing the most widely available language to destroy the UX makes a website poorly developed.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by coin on Wednesday February 15, 2017 @08:45PM (#13657253)
Why do I need to run executable code in order to read static content?
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by a_imho on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:39AM (#13643755)
Well, afaik Opera has content blocking by default, Firefox should do the same. MS and Apple could potentially add it.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by rsync on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:23PM (#13645759)
"Resist! Use adblockers, disable cookies which live over the session by default, turn off JS if you can."

For the fourth or fifth time this year, in response to a thread about browser privacy, I am reminded that what I really want is the ability to jail/chroot a browser.

Firing up a full-blown VM for a browser ("banking profile", "twitter profile", "sketchy online store profile") is way too heavyweight and resource intensive. I want a totally, totally clean slate (restored to post-install defaults) to restart certain browsing sessions with (and dispose of when I am done) but a full virtual machine is too expensive in time and resources.

But if I could jail a GUI application ... then there would be almost zero resource overhead and the jail would die quickly when you're done.

jailing a GUI application is not that well developed of a use-case. Further, OSX doesn't even have a jail command.

I wish this was an established use-case - I would really like a totally throwaway browser profile that I could reset and re-use.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by Sophira on Wednesday February 15, 2017 @11:27AM (#13653138)
You actually can do something like this with Firefox. If you load Firefox with the "-ProfileManager" switch (and you don't have another Firefox window open; see below for how to get round this), it'll open a window where you can choose your user profile. You can create and delete profiles from there, and a new profile is exactly the same as a completely new browser installation. (This includes any settings you may have for automatic browser updates; if you've turned these off on your normal profile, the first thing you should do on the new profile is turn off the automatic browser updates again, as browser updates are global and not per-profile.)

If you like, you can uncheck the "Use the selected profile without asking at startup" checkbox to have the window show up every time you start Firefox (which is defined as loading Firefox when there's no Firefox window already open). Doing this has the additional side benefit that if an application tries to open Firefox and load a new URL when you don't have any Firefox windows open, you'll be alerted to it by the Choose User Profile box - very useful if your normal profile takes a long time to load!

If you want, you can add the "-no-remote" switch to tell a new Firefox process not to connect with any existing one, which will allow you to open a new profile in a different browser window while you've still got the original running in other windows. However, those windows will share the same taskbar grouping, so I'd recommend you apply a different theme to the new profile to allow you to distinguish the two.

(Note: You should not use "-no-remote" by default, as a browser profile can only be open by one process at a time and you won't be able to open new windows through your shortcut icon.)

Of course, none of this will defeat the multiple-browser fingerprinting techniques mentioned in the article, but it's still incredibly useful.

I'm not sure if there's an equivalent in Chrome, or at least one that goes as far as Firefox does.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by thinkling on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:31PM (#13648697)
> I am reminded that what I really want is the ability to jail/chroot a browser.

Sounds a bit like local Docker for browsing?

Everyone would download the same Chrome container with the exact same clean config and software rendering so the canvas/WebGL fingerprinting yielded nothing?

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by dreamcompiler on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:32PM (#13648339)
Logging in to the Guest account on OSX accomplishes what you want, no?
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by thinkling on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:18PM (#13648628)
Some of the fingerprinting involves not the user-controlled configuration of the machine, but hardware-related aspects like the canvas fingerprinting which looks at pixel level details of a small rendered figure. That combined with IP address will go a long way.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by rsync on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:13PM (#13649163)
"Logging in to the Guest account on OSX accomplishes what you want, no?"

No ...

That is, unless I can easily script the destruction and recreation of the guest account, and automated install and configuration of my chrome setup ...

The idea here is that I set up chrome just how I want it and deploy and redeploy that "container" over and over - destroying it and recreating it after each use. Possibly with multiple instances running simultaneously ...

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by dreamcompiler on Sunday February 19, 2017 @04:56PM (#13682253)
When a Guest logs out, any files they created are destroyed, including cookies and browser histories. But I don't know of a way to have multiple instances running sumultaneously.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by spaceboy on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:41AM (#13643768)
> I wonder if we can come up with a widely adopt(able|ed) fingerprint that we can mask ourselves with, do any of these identifying bits actually make the web more usable for us?

https://anonymous-proxy-servers.net/en/jondofox.html

JonDofox with JS turned off and uBlock origin installed. There's actually a small pool of users with this config but it needs to be bigger. As you said, as soon as we get consensus on what config to use, we can all switch to it en-masse.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by samfisher83 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:51AM (#13644351)
Unless you disable JavaScript it would be to hard to stop the fingerprinting. If you shut off JavaScript a lot of sites won't work
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by pdkl95 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:18AM (#13644564)
If a website doesn't have at least minimal functionality (i.e. the article can be read), then the website is broken. Fortunately, most websites that aren't complete trash work ok without JS. Very few websites need to have their JS whitelisted, which only has to be done on the first visit.

Running unknown programs from random hosts on the internet - even in a limited environment - is a bad idea. Fortunately, documents (including images, audio, video, etc.) do not need Turing completeness. A lot of people will react strongly against the idea of not using JS, often because their income depends on tricking users into running spyware/malware,

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by romaniv on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:06PM (#13645022)
>If a website doesn't have at least minimal functionality, then the website is broken.

Curious. This goes completely against the sentiment in all of the discussions around modern SPA frameworks and JS libraries I've seen on this very website. It seems that for most fronted devs today JS is a natural prerequisite for using their product. Progressive enhancement is often sneered at[1] as impractical and unnecessary. This leads me to believe that there are two mostly disjoint groups of people commenting on this issue in different threads.

---

[1] - Good example: https://www.viget.com/articles/the-case-against-progressive-...

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by pikzen on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:15PM (#13645690)
Their landing page doesn't work without Javascript. It doesn't load images without Javascript. And they're advocating for no PE.

I don't know which world JS devs are dragging us in, but it certainly looks shitty and ignoring every single thing software engineers have learned in the past thirty years.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by inetknght on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:02AM (#13644444)
From firsthand experience, I've learned to live with broken websites and often end up _not_ using sites that rely heavily on javascript, and especially not sites that rely heavily on loading javascript from third-party domains. The worst offenders, by far, are news sites. Coming close are just about every startup that has a heavy focus on fancy web front end.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by logfromblammo on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:04AM (#13644454)
Since many of those sites "work" by tracking you and relentlessly analyzing your behavior, I'd say that's a good thing.

If a site shows me nothing but a blank screen when I load it up with scripts disabled, I am very reluctant to enable 14 different script domains just to see a paged article, or worse, a slide show.

Allowing scripts to run only from whitelisted domains makes the web a better place.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by zeveb on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:35AM (#13644743)
> If you shut off JavaScript a lot of sites won't work

If a site requires JavaScript, it already doesn't work. If a site requires JavaScript, its owner clearly doesn't care about either your security or your privacy.

Why use a site which requires JavaScript?

JavaScript delenda est.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by codingdave on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:41AM (#13643763)
Not all of those identifying bits have anything to do with the web. For example, your OS, your monitor size and color depth, the fonts you have installed. Those things make your overall computing experience useful, whether or not they improve your web experience.

It might be more practical to work towards browsers that do not have access to data that is not relevant to the web experience. I do need to know the size of your browser window. I do not need to know anything more about your video capabilities. In an ideal world, I wouldn't even need to know your browser, I would just need to know its capabilities. Your browser needs to know which fonts it can display, but my web server doesn't need to know that.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by rileymat2 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:59AM (#13644419)
> In an ideal world, I wouldn't even need to know your browser, I would just need to know its capabilities.

Isn't that info still enough for finger printing the browser, if they have enough different capabilities?

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by dest on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:37AM (#13642801)
As stated in the article, the Tor Browser Bundle seems a good candidate of a widely adopted fingerprint. But it's just Tor of course, not browsers in general.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by xkxx on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:38AM (#13643083)
Hmm, a good idea would be to make it possible to use Tor Browser without Tor, for those who don't need strong anonymity, but still want to resist browser fingerprinting.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by mirimir on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:42AM (#13643408)
That's not very hard.[0]

> If you intend to test for leaks using other third-party sites, I recommend using Tor browser, because it's been hardened to block WebGL fingerprinting, and otherwise to report the same fingerprints for all users. But you obviously don't want to use Tor while testing your VPN. First, download Tor browser for your OS. Do that with your VPN connected, so your ISP doesn't see. After extracting, start Tor browser. You can probably accept all defaults. Go to advanced network settings, and select "No proxy". Browse about:config, and toggle both "extensions.torlauncher.starttor" and "network.proxy.socksremote_dns" to "false". Then browse check.torproject.org. You should see "Sorry. You are not using Tor." and your VPN exit IP address.

0) https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/how-to-perform-a-vpn-lea...

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by xkxx on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:42PM (#13649503)
Nice. I didn't know it was that easy. Using Tor Browser + VPN is definitely a good idea. Especially, if you don't want to be constantly solving captchas because of those hosts who don't trust Tor exit nodes. Some hosts even ban all Tor exit nodes altogether, duh.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by sleepychu on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:00AM (#13643189)
I really want to just use my browser though, if it's possible to make it work without confessing all the bits that make my fingerprint.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by dest on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:40AM (#13643761)
I think those bits of information are closely tied to your browser functionalities. E.g. resolution, plugins installed. Keeping those bits for you would degrade your browsing experience.

Have a look at the parameters that bring the highest amount of fingerprinting bits in your config https://panopticlick.eff.org/ then see if it possible to disable them. I think it's just plain hard.

Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by thinkling on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:24PM (#13648659)
It's plain hard because the moment the browser blocks some of the fingerprinting techniques, the fingerprint developers will look for something else and move on. Just like spam and ads, it's an arms race.
Re:Websites can now fingerprint a device when multiple brows... by Balgair on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:06AM (#13644472)