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Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by dogma1138 on Friday February 10, 2017 @03:46PM (#13618746)
The focus in this thread appears to be on the wrong thing. Intel has introduced a new process here for die interconnects http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/foundry/emib.html

This can be very interesting especially if this can be expanded to other products. TSVs increase the pricing of certain products by a substantial margin and have pretty high failure rates, they also increase the internal resistance of components and can cause thermal issues.

HBM and 3Dxpoint built on EMIB can reduce the price of these components substantially, it can also make it viable again to split the dies of the IGP and the CPU allowing Intel have SKUs with different IGP configuration including EDRAM/SRAM without having to have multiple die designs.

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by wmf on Friday February 10, 2017 @03:54PM (#13618795)
I don't think the cost of multiple die designs is significant for Intel since they amortize it over very high volume. (For example, they updated the Celeron/Pentium/i3 line to Kaby Lake even though customers probably won't even notice.) EMIB looks like it would always be more expensive than a single die or MCM so I don't see the benefit for consumer chips.
Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by dogma1138 on Friday February 10, 2017 @03:58PM (#13618826)
EMIB allows you to integrate dies that are built using different processes which means that you don't have to wait for all of your processes to align.

If you can't produce reliable SRAM at 10nm no problem, if you want to integrate FPGAs that are build using a different process no problem, you want to scale up the same basic core design of 4 core clusters again just make the same small dies and interpose them based on market demands. This will allow Intel to sell Xeon SoCs/CPU's with 128 to 256 core which isn't viable if you put them all on the same die, it also means that they don't have to disable cores for different SKU's now if they want to make a 10 core CPU they just put 10 cores and not 12 with 2 of them disabled.

People also overlook the cost of the masks, a set of master masks cost a lot of money even their copies cost a small fortune and as we go into more and more intensive processes as far as radiation goes the lifespan of these masks shrinks in an ever increasing pace.

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by ethbro on Friday February 10, 2017 @05:36PM (#13619527)
I'm assuming this might also mean they can leverage their legacy fabs to a greater degree for non-critical components in competitive spaces? That seems like a huge advantage.

It sounds like a move from "Do we assume the next node will be ready for our most important chip in X years?" to "What parts of chips is the next node currently ready for?"

Fabbing smaller dies on lower-yield, leading edge processes would also be nice. Curious what the trade-offs will look like in terms of power/thermal vs a monolithic die design.

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by elihu on Friday February 10, 2017 @07:16PM (#13620111)
The probability of a major flaw that forces you to throw away the whole chip goes up with die size, so presumably EMIB would allow Intel to manufacture and test smaller chips individually before assembling them into a bigger processor, and that may result in less waste and lower cost.

It also might mean large-core chips could be available sooner on new manufacturing processes (which tend to have a high failure rate until they're thoroughly debugged).

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by toast0 on Friday February 10, 2017 @06:03PM (#13619696)
> For example, they updated the Celeron/Pentium/i3 line to Kaby Lake even though customers probably won't even notice.

The difference between Sky Lake Celeron and Kaby Lake Celeron is small, but it's not like it's a big difference for i7 either. I don't think a lot of people are tossing out their Sky Lake CPUs and putting in Kaby Lake at any part of the performance curve; it's just if you're upgrading from something older (maybe Sandy or Ivy Bridge) or buying something new that you may want to go with the newer core design. Eg: Celeron G3920 (Skylake) vs G3930 (Kaby Lake) are both 2.9Ghz but G3930 is about $10 cheaper and may have a slightly nicer GPU.

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by kingosticks on Friday February 10, 2017 @08:14PM (#13620352)
EMIB is always cheaper than an MCM, primarily because you don't need TSVs (which Intel don't have access to anyway?)
Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by petra on Friday February 10, 2017 @04:51PM (#13619221)
>> make it viable again to split the dies of the IGP and the CPU allowing Intel have SKUs with different IGP configuration

Also, it allows Intel to increase the rate of innovation - for example by specifying how each silicon die(memory, interconnect, rf?, acceleration, etc) connects to the EMIB, and letting internal and maybe external groups work independently and maybe compete on better modules.

Shame this would be wasted on someone as close as Intel though.

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by ksec on Friday February 10, 2017 @10:53PM (#13620907)
The concept is like AMD’s Infinity Fabric but one step further.

No more IGP for high end Desktop CPU. Can easily mix and match CPU / GPU or even FPGA according to customer's requirement. I wonder why will this be on the market.

Another Point is Data Center First for new node. Why? What push them to make this decision? They literally have 95% market shares with healthy margin.

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by kingosticks on Saturday February 11, 2017 @04:23AM (#13621889)
Is there some new info about EMIB they've just released? It was announced some time ago.
Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by deepnotderp on Friday February 10, 2017 @09:31PM (#13620603)
This seems to only be for 2.5D integration, not 3D stacking that TSVs are capable of, right?