> (and yes there is a difference between ADHD and ADD).

Not anymore. Under the new classifications, there is only ADHD. However, ADHD can come in three forms - "Predominantly Inattentive", "Predominantly Hyperactive", or "Combined".[0] So, confusingly, a person can have ADHD without any symptoms of hyperactivity, in which case they are diagnosed with "Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder - Primarily Inattentive".

The differential diagnosis between the three types is time-consuming and oftentimes not worth the trouble or expense except in more severe cases, so it's common for doctors either to subjectively apply the one they feel fits the individual without comprehensive testing, or to default to "Combined".

[0] It's actually slightly more complicated than that, depending on whether you use ICD-9, ICD-10 or the DSM V, but ICD-10 and the DSM V both agree that ADHD is the canonical term, and ADD is "deprecated" (to appropriate the software terminology).

>The big plus with nicotine is that it doesn't have the after downer that the above stimulants have.

What do you mean by this? Caffeine withdrawal over nicotine withdrawal seems like a no brainer to me with what I've seen from smokers, but I don't smoke so I can't say first hand.

As another commenter alluded to I was referring to the crash or hangover.

As for withdrawal I don't think I have ever felt it with nicotine but it might be because I just don't ever do enough (the most pieces of gum I have had in one day is 40mg of nicotine.. ie 10 pieces). I have had a nicotine hangover with cigars but this is usually because alcohol is involved as well as I believe cigars lower intake of oxygen (just a theory.. probably wrong).

Caffeine withdrawal is awful.. absolutely awful for me. Headaches for days. I usually give up and pound 4 ibuprofen with a large cup of coffee.

Caffeine withdrawal, out of the many types, is my least favorite to experience.

Nicotine withdrawal (non-tobacco) is nearly unnoticeable, while nicbacco withdrawal can be a little annoying. Although, while I smoked for years, I never smoked more than a pack or two pipes full a week, so perhaps it scales.

Neither compares to the full on pounding headaches, teeth grinding, and occasional auditory hallucinations that can accompany cold turkey, n pots a day caffeine withdrawal.

I rate caffeine easily on par with opiates in terms of the length and discomfort of their withdrawal.

I think that @agentgt was talking about "coming down" from the high (or effects of the drug), and not withdrawal symptoms.

Thanks for sharing your experience. As a substance nerd I find all this info very helpful and illuminating. Are you familiar with Erowid?

I tried a bunch of supplements and herbs. Some worked, some had nasty side effects, and most did squat.

The short list is I tried: Piractem, GABA, Rhodila Rosea, Cocamine (chocolate extract), gluractone (red bull ingredient), various ephedrine like stuff, various methly caffeine things (ie green tea), Yohimbine (I highly recommend you never ever take this).

I used to have lab like jars of the stuff at work and my coworkers would call me "the mad scientist".

Nothing worked better than exercise, sleep, nicotine, staying hydrated, and coffee. Strategic fasting is also effective but you have to be careful with that as well (ie intermittent fasting).

The other issue with trying weird stuff is we know a lot (longitudinal study wise) about nicotine. We don't for lots of natural supplements (just my 2 cents). I also can't stress it enough... do not take Yohimbine.. (that stuff should be illegal).

EDIT for Yohimbine explanation (I can't reply to ducttapemaster):

Yohimbine made me extremely lightheaded, extremely anxious, extremely nauseous and I could not sleep for 3 days and I think it was only 5 mg of HCL. I would rather have kidney stones again than go through Yohimbine...

The sick part is I have tried it multiple times (I guess to be scientific about it :) ).

In regards to Yohimbine, I'll heed your experienced words should I ever come across, I won't partake. Wow, just googling it: "It is a veterinary drug used to reverse sedation in dogs and deer."

It's interesting that you can basically reap all the benefits of nicotine without any of the carcinogens. Do you feel at all like it's difficult to step away from?

I really like your list of "nothing worked better than ~" it makes sense and it's interesting how the more we pay attention to our bodies the better we feel and are.

> It's interesting that you can basically reap all the benefits of nicotine without any of the carcinogens. Do you feel at all like it's difficult to step away from?

I have a somewhat armchair biologist theory (based on anecdotes and light research) that much of addiction is based on genetics, social, and timing. I wasn't exposed to nicotine during my formative years and thus (just guessing) that I do not feel any addiction what so ever to nicotine (if it isn't nicotine but tobacco that causes it I have smoked cigars so I have done the raw stuff as well).

That being said I almost cannot go a night with out having one or two drinks and I have to have my morning coffee. I really wish I could stop drinking alcohol (calorie reasons) but I like beer and wine so much for the taste.

  do not take Yohimbine

Did you take actual, pharmaceutical-grade Yohimbine HCl, or an herbal? Actual, unrefined Yohimbe has other alkaloids that have adverse effects, and it oxidizes quickly.

I do not recall the manufacture but it was a very small white pill (I have seen the extract pills you might be referring to which are reddish).

I just don't think I can try the experiment again but I'm fairly sure it was the yohimbine (this was after repeated tries of different products).

Yohimbine is a horrible experience. Used clinically to induce anxiety attacks, and does so very well.

Wow, why would you want/need to induce an anxiety attack?

Not a real answer but I consider myself lucky I had my first one in the ER (which I was in at the time for other reasons). The medical staff could in a calm and collected manner explain to me exactly what I was experiencing and what mechanisms in my body was activating and it all became so much easier to deal with.

I can only imagine having your first one alone or among inexperienced people and how much more horrifying that must be.

Out of curiosity, what was your experience with Yohimbine? Why was it so bad?

What's a duct-ape and how did you learn to control them?

As another ADD-diagnosed person, my understanding is the current consensus is that ADD is simply a different manifestation of ADHD. That is to say, same underlying root cause, so treatment can be similar.

Didn't know about the nicotine angle though, kind of interested in the research on this.

Yes that is correct. The only reason why I sort of take issue with it is being grouped with people that are bouncing of the wall.

That is during elementary school I was grouped with kids that had ADD/ADHD for some counselors/teachers/doctors to learn about us. There was clearly two groups. The kids like me (ADD) staring at the ceiling fans, flowers, whatever and the other kids (ADHD) who were running around trying to tear apart the fans, flowers and whatever.

The problem with getting the label of ADHD is that all of the sudden people suddenly think they observe hyperactive behavior with you. That is they associate hyperactivity with you. So anytime you express an idea excitedly or thoughts come quickly and you are trying to express them to some one (which is challenging particularly if you are an introvert) people call it hyperactive behavior.... the same word for behavior such as running around punching kids, tearing shit up and acting like a 2 year old. Hopefully you understand why I don't like the association even it if is academically correct.

I'm sorry for this rude person but are there, or why, so any Americans with adhd. I don't know anyone having it here and I meet a lot of Hackers... The population should be similar. Here it feels like everyone has it or knows about it.

I think it's more a perception because America is more progressive about mental health care than most countries (maybe thanks to big pharma, I don't know though). It's extremely likely for ADHD to be under-reported in other countries because of the lack of screening for this sort of thing.

In my experience in other countries, the primary difficulty for ADHD support groups is that many country's medical institutions do not even acknowledge ADHD as a thing.

Some of these institutions acknowledge, but seem to believe that the condition disappears when you turn 18.

Many of the regulatory institutions don't allow stimulants to be used for treatment, either.

This is mostly an anti-scientific position. ADHD is extremely well-researched. Its (medication-based, not CBT) treatment is the most effective of any mental illness, more so than "understood" things like depression.

I'm biased, but I think a lot of places are still in denial about ADHD. There's way too much research around the illness and its effects and treatment.

I don't argue with my diagnosis (in high school), but I disagree very much with the immediate decision to medicate. I felt very strongly at the time that the whole point was to sell medicine to my parents (Vyvance in my case).

It was just, "oh, his GPA's low? Seems like he can't focus? Here are some amphetamines, have a nice day!", with zero follow up about whether the medication was doing its job (didn't matter -- I never took it anyway).

Before I quit I used patches for a while with only minor side-effects - slight upset stomach and night sweats, which are certainly no worse than any of the various amphetamine analogs I've been prescribed. I quit nicotine completely though because I always went back to smoking due to the extremely fast uptake. I'm not sure about whether I want to get back on it, or whether it would even work any more.