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Re:A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to j... by mootothemax on Monday January 16, 2017 @12:04PM (#13411197)
>As someone from the UK, my main reason for not moving anywhere else in Europe is the language barrier. I'm not even sure I'm capable of learning another language

I moved to Poland from the UK yonks ago, and have equally disastrous - if not worse - language skills as you.

Not long after arriving, I accidentally got a job at a startup, and I'd been led to believe everything was done in English internally: communications; client emails; heck, even variable names in the code, all was in English and I had nothing to fear.

This turned out to be a slight exaggeration; anything in English was the rare exception, rather than the rule.

You know what, though? Even without lessons and fully resenting Polish's grammar, you learn really quick. You also won't be facing this alone; as long as you're actually capable of getting the job done, plenty of local language speakers in your office will bend over backwards to encourage and help you.

Don't let language be the only thing holding you back. If I had my time again, I'd let things like bureaucracy and road safety guide my decision rather than what noises come out of peoples' mouths.

Re:A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to j... by krzyk on Monday January 16, 2017 @12:44PM (#13411534)
> even variable names in the code, all was in English

As a English-is-my-second-language person I can't imagine naming variables using any other language but English.

English is most of the times more concise than my mother language (Polish), and it is much easier to share code on the net, find help on stackoverflow, etc.

Re:A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to j... by mgbmtl on Monday January 16, 2017 @02:11PM (#13412132)
Say you're implementing a field-specific solution, do you use the US English term or the term that's written on the users know? (specs, documentation, etc)

If another developer comes on board, will their English be fluent enough to know those terms? There's also a huge risk in having a translation error. We're programmers, not translators.

For general variable names, I agree. On the other hand, in my experience, when the programmers aren't fluent enough in English, if English is imposed, they tend to choose really bad variable names and not comment their code properly. So I tend to impose clear names/doc over imposing a specific language.

Re:A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to j... by krzyk on Monday January 16, 2017 @02:20PM (#13412203)
In Poland it is generally assumed that a programmer knows English, most of the companies here are just branches of companies from other countries (not only US/UK based) and to communicate we use English as a common ground.

Another factor to consider is that if we write in language that has some constructs (e.g. C - if/then/else/while/return/int/double/class/void etc.) then writing:

    if (znalezione) {
       ...
    }
looks awkward.

Also one has to consider popular libraries and functions/methods/classes in them are English based, so this would add even more awkwardness to the code:

    zwierzęta.stream()
        .filter(z -> z.kończyny().contains(noga))
        .map(z -> z.toString())
        .collect(Collectors.toList());
Re:A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to j... by mgbmtl on Monday January 16, 2017 @03:35PM (#13412784)
As I said, I'm not talking about the basics, but more especially for field-specific terminology, comments, etc.

I agree with you, but the example you gave is more common than you think. We tend to over-estimate people's language skills. (keep in mind, English is not my native tongue, I'm including myself in there and it's not meant as an attack, just something we need to deal with, and I would not outright exclude bilingual code)

Re:A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to j... by lazaroclapp on Monday January 16, 2017 @03:34PM (#13412773)
One problem for a startup (as opposed to a consulting firm), is that you would eventually want to have geographically distributed offices and teams, though. So if you start with a code-base in something other than english and then end up opening an office in Ireland, Germany, Singapore or India you will likely end up rewriting into english anyways (never mind the Bay Area, Seattle or NYC, which you will likely need before your company reaches 10,000 developers...).
Re:A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to j... by pzh on Monday January 16, 2017 @05:17PM (#13413518)
> If another developer comes on board, will their English be fluent enough to know those terms?

That's why my startup uses language-neutral variable names like i, j, k and x, y, z.

Re:A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to j... by K0SM0S on Monday January 16, 2017 @06:51PM (#13414101)
Some advocates of code "expressiveness" would like (or perhaps dread) a word with your lead... ;)

Joke aside, for anyone curious: we use such i, j variables for abstract logic like a counter (e.g. i=0 at the beginning of a loop, and gets incremented by 1 each time the loop runs), or booleans maybe (e.g. P=0 or 1, true or false). But generally it is considered good practice to give names to variables that are self-explanatory (e.g. studentName or vehicle_age) for readability and ease of understanding. Even counters and booleans should be significant when possible (e.g. "hasResponded" or "day_num").

On topic, I think english or not doesn't matter theoretically. Its cultural and indeed 80% of computing/code happens in english on earth (no source, waddayathink!). What matters imho is that semantics are correct (both human and machine language...) and reasonably meaningful to a collaborator.

To anybody wanting to know better: read open-source code. Best school there is, actual practice.

Re:A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to j... by manarth on Monday January 16, 2017 @02:38PM (#13412334)

  I can't imagine naming variables using any other language but English.
I spent some time as a consultant auditing other companies' software. Even with platforms where the coding-standards dictated the use of English, most of the projects I audited in Europe used the local language, rather than English - especially in variable names.

Admittedly there was a selection bias - I wasn't ever hired to audit perfectly good software - but it was remarkably common.

Re:A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to j... by otoburb on Monday January 16, 2017 @01:55PM (#13411991)
>>English is most of the times more concise than my mother language (Polish) [...]

If one were to pick Polish variable names, would the default be the neutral forms[1]? I'm sure this applies to other languages that also have forms of complex declension compared to English. Which would make more sense in Polish?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_grammar#Nouns

Re:A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to j... by Tade0 on Monday January 16, 2017 @12:29PM (#13411392)
> I moved to Poland from the UK yonks ago, and have equally disastrous - if not worse - language skills as you.

Interesting direction. As a Polish person I have to ask: was your reason to move personal, or did you notice a career opportunity and went after it?

Re:A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to j... by dvdhnt on Monday January 16, 2017 @01:04PM (#13411688)
So, I still live in the U.S., but generally try to meet people abroad as often as possible while remaining in contact via Facebook, Snapchat, and WhatsApp.

While, personally, the U.K. and Sweden remain the most viable destinations if I were to move abroad, Poland isn't far behind in terms of the personalities of the people I've met, the scenery they've showed me, and the cultural/historical depth there. Obviously, take that with a truck load of salt since I've yet to visit.

Re:A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to j... by reacharavindh on Monday January 16, 2017 @02:23PM (#13412239)
Curious what you think of Netherlands and Denmark as places to live and work..