News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by ForrestN on Thursday December 29, 2016 @09:34PM (#13282086)
The problem is misleading the public about the nature of the information gathered and the shady ways that the information is sometimes used. If Facebook were only gathering information necessary to improve the experience of its users, and were not selling that information or lying about it, I don't think you'd see the same backlash.
Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by onewaystreet on Thursday December 29, 2016 @09:54PM (#13282157)
> If Facebook were only gathering information necessary to improve the experience of its users, and were not selling that information or lying about it, I don't think you'd see the same backlash.

Facebook doesn't sell information, it sells ads. That's not the same thing.

Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by underdown on Friday December 30, 2016 @12:14AM (#13282678)
They sell ads by offering this information in the form of targeting.
Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by majormajor on Friday December 30, 2016 @01:05AM (#13282856)
I've worked at an ad-serving company. Clients couldn't get our data out, it's behind the scenes to them. Business-wise, it would be undermining our own product to offer anyone's personal information. There are other companies that do this focusing just on the collection side, which sounds like what FB is buying - but for FB to protect their position they're going to try to keep lids on that.

The companies that try to sell those types of profiles, by IP or cookie syncing or whatever, seemed to get it wildly, wildly wrong - but the role of accuracy/auditing in the ads business is another discussion. FB seems to be buying a different sort of data than we were, since they know so much more (first/last/birthdate, etc).

Anyway, this is a problem that doesn't start or stop with FB, and the brokers are the dangerous part.

Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by slau on Friday December 30, 2016 @05:20AM (#13283654)
I worked for a few years at a company that provided a SaaS IVR product. Think call centre call routing, and PBX features on any dumb phone.

As people shy away from phone calls, and with the competition of VoIP, we gradually saw the erosion of the price per minute we could charge (roughly 40% drop over the course of 5 years).

The company tried to shift by looking at the data we had available. Millions of phone calls, and we knew exactly what kind of service was being called. Banks, airlines, airports, sex lines, restaurants, customer support, whatever. We could see when people called most, for how long, and we even knew which service inside the call centre they were talking to.

It wasn't long before the company wanted to exploit this, and they started working on the ability to play ads while people were waiting to get in touch with a service representative. Targeted ads.

Based on phone habits, we could tell whether the person calling was a stay-at-home parent, retiree, teen, young professional, etc. We could also tell their gender, in 60-70% of cases.

Because of the technology, we had access to actual phone number, even when people called with restricted identity. It's just how it works when you are registered as a "network operator".

This shift from "let's provide an amazing service" to "let's mine the crap out of everyone" definitely contributed in my leaving the company.

Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by Fnoord on Friday December 30, 2016 @02:05AM (#13283020)
Starting a database with personal information on a large amount of personae. Without them knowing about it. Refusing to share the gathered information. All of this is legal in the US? In the EU???
Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by mpk on Friday December 30, 2016 @02:40AM (#13283140)
The EU has restrictions on this kind of stuff - http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/data-collection/...
Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by amelius on Friday December 30, 2016 @10:18AM (#13284729)
> I've worked at an ad-serving company. Clients couldn't get our data out

That's not really possible. Proof: Say Alice is your client, and her ad targets gay people (even though the ad or the advertised product itself is not necessarily related to being gay). Then using your data about sexual preference, you serve the ads only to gay people. Only gay people will see the ad, and thus only gay people will reach Alice's website. Hence Alice got the data out. QED.

Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by maverick_iceman on Friday December 30, 2016 @12:06AM (#13282650)
They have to make money somehow, don't they?
Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by harry8 on Friday December 30, 2016 @12:30AM (#13282727)
The mafia defense? Really?
Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by bigB on Friday December 30, 2016 @12:45AM (#13282786)
Why not, you are using their "free" services, and if you would care to read every word of the user agreements then it lays out exactly what they information they "collect". What they "collect" and what they "know" are two different things, using data analysis they can speculate many other aspects of a user with a pretty high degree of accuracy. They should not have to disclose this, the user has given them the data as agreed. If the media and privacy nuts didn't always put an evil spin on it people might actually realise that things in life aren't free. I know many people who enjoy using facebook for free, so why shouldn't Facebook make money from that. Just because they know alot about you doesn't mean that you absolve responsibility for giving out so much information in the first place.
Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by greggman on Friday December 30, 2016 @06:33AM (#13283862)
Giving information directly to facebook is one thing. The article is about FB gathering info not directly given to them.

Imagine the government put a policeman on every corner and they recorded the movements of every person in the neighborhood at all times. 4:36pm Mr. Jones walked to newsstand, 4:43pm Mrs Jones opens front door, looks around, closes front door. 4:45pm Mr. Smith dog starts barking. 4:51pm Unknown man shows up at Mr. and Mrs Miller's house. Mr Miller is not home. She invites him in. 5:01pm Mrs Wayne tends to her tomato garden.

Many (most?) people would feel creeped out to know they are being constantly watched and all activities logged. And yet Microsoft, Apple, Google, Facebook and a bunch of others are trying to do exactly that through your computer, your online activity and through your phone and eventually they'll probably also do it with cameras and mics

Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by bestnameever on Sunday January 01, 2017 @05:51PM (#13297879)
It is rumored that some metro systems are utilizing face recognition technology. Also, I'm pretty sure our license plates are scanned and recorded as we drive throughout cities.
Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by walterstucco on Friday December 30, 2016 @06:24AM (#13283843)
mafia is free as well... you could not use their "service" but suddenly you realize you can't, because you're cut out (depending on where you live in Italy this could be literally true, you're just cut into pieces) if you don't.
Re:Facebook Doesn’t Tell Users Everything It Really Knows Ab... by firmgently on Saturday December 31, 2016 @02:43PM (#13292762)
If you want your client/user/customer to be aware of something you put it on your front page or packaging in plain language and a large, legible font. T&Cs/TOS is where you obfuscate information that you're legally obliged to 'inform' people of, but you really wish you didn't have to and you hope they'll never see it. Nobody reads the T&Cs of every product they use. I know this, you know this, everyone knows this. To suggest otherwise is either naive or disingenuous. It may be commonplace but it's really not ok and we shouldn't accept it. To defend companies doing this is enabling and shameful IMO.