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Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by tptacek on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:10PM (#1328120)
Avoid Wordpress.

Sometimes a short comment is that's warranted.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by elidourado on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:36PM (#1328197)
Entrepreneurs take note. This is a problem that is not being solved. There are lots of smallish bloggers out there who want more customization than Blogger/Wordpress.com/Tumblr/Posterous allow, whose best option is Wordpress and shared hosting. This is a sucky best option. Do something about this; make some money solving this problem.
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by jerf on Friday May 07, 2010 @03:09PM (#1328424)
This is a Turing Tarpit; the only infinitely customizable blog platform is "PHP" (or your choice of other actual language). And as your customization possibility space increases, the customization inevitably starts to look like a language. Because it is.

That's why nobody's "solved" this problem in the last ten years; you can't have programming language flexibility without programming language complexity.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by staunch on Friday May 07, 2010 @04:01PM (#1328554)
Wordpress is like Apache or Sendmail. A 500-headed monster. It's simple enough to use and does everything. It's also sloppy and overgrown. Most people don't need all the extra stuff it does. Certainly not at the expense of security.

Apache => Nginx

Sendmail => Postfix

Wordpress => _______

That is room for an enterprising open source developer.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by jseliger on Friday May 07, 2010 @09:19PM (#1329312)
"It's also sloppy and overgrown. Most people don't need all the extra stuff it does. Certainly not at the expense of security."

The problem is that everyone needs a different 20% customized. This is what Joel Spolsky basically argues in Bloatware and the 80/20 Myth: http://joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000020.html . He's talking about desktop software, but you can see the same essential thing in blogging software; I'm using Wordpress for Grant Writing Confidential at http://blog.seliger.com chiefly because it has everything I want and is easy to use.

The extra stuff I use includes themes and a couple of plugins, like one for generating an XML sitemap and another for cacheing. I know that blogging platform X probably has the particular set of features I need -- until I find something that it can't do.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by tptacek on Friday May 07, 2010 @04:09PM (#1328575)
I trust Apache.

I don't trust Sendmail but there's an emotional component to that; I would have laughed at you for using it in 1999, but I think 2 decades of analysis has to produce some result.

There's something more going on with Wordpress than simple complexity.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by pquerna on Friday May 07, 2010 @05:42PM (#1328869)
I'm sorry, what?

Apache doesn't have security issues at all like Wordpress, you are confusing FLEXIBILITY with INSECURE software.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by staunch on Friday May 07, 2010 @05:48PM (#1328885)
It's had its fair share of problems. Mostly in the past at this point though. It is heavily bloated and overgrown compared with something lean and mean like nginx.

Even if Wordpress didn't have security issues there'd be room for an nginx of blogging.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by elidourado on Friday May 07, 2010 @03:25PM (#1328471)
Understood, but I don't think people need infinite customizability. They need roughly Wordpress-level customizability, security, and relatively cheap hosting. Can no one really supply this?
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by jerf on Friday May 07, 2010 @04:17PM (#1328611)
"Understood, but I don't think people need infinite customizability."

Need, no. Want? Yes. Literally "infinite"? No. But variable beyond belief? Yes.

Elsewhere in the thread, you complain about hardcoded URL structures! That's pretty far out there on the "I demand customizability!" front, if you consider the horrible things that will do to your platform's internals. Random users running code in their templates, another feature you request, implies that we need to sandbox and resource limit the templates, if we also want to maintain the ability to have "cheap" hosting (which breaks if our users start writing infinite loops into their templates). (Sorry, did I say "if"? I meant "when".) Take your needs, and two other customers with the same level of detailed desires, but different desires, take the union of them, and you've got a freaking complicated product spec'ed out. One that, incidentally, is going to be pretty complicated to actually customize. Oh, and the odds of it suffering the classic "endless interacting-feature bugs because nobody ever said no to a feature" is basically 100%.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by drusenko on Friday May 07, 2010 @04:33PM (#1328673)
Weebly is trying to strike a balance between the two. We don't let you upload PHP code to our servers, but we are extremely customizable.

I mentioned more of our features below: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1328512

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by drusenko on Friday May 07, 2010 @03:45PM (#1328512)
Weebly is solving this problem -- you just may not have noticed.

We have rich blogging features that are on par or better than most blog systems: create posts, edit your side bar, set catgories, human-readable (and adjustable) URLs, commenting, comment moderation (open/moderate/closed), close commenting after x days, post in the past, set time zones, post drafts, private drafts, etc.

Even better, a blog doesn't have to be the focus of your site -- it can be just a page. You can create other pages to put things like pictures, videos, photo galleries, slide shows, maps -- by just dragging and dropping them on. You can even create custom forms and surveys by dragging on the form elements (name, address, phone number, drop downs, etc)

While you can't upload PHP, you do have full customizability over your theme CSS and HTML.

To top it off, your site is hosted free of charge on our robust infrastructure that's machine and geographically redundant. We serve sites that hit the front page of Digg or the NYT every day and don't even see a blip in our traffic graphs :)

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by tomjen3 on Friday May 07, 2010 @04:23PM (#1328628)
That sounds awesome, but I have too questions about your service that the homepage did not answer (atleast I could not find it straight away):

Is there an export option? I would have to be locked into using your guys just to see your company fail (and you don't seem to have a way to do revenue, esp. when you won't put ads on the blogs)?

Is there a way for me to host blog._somedomain_ with you, I would rather not make my blog the focus of the domain...

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by drusenko on Friday May 07, 2010 @04:30PM (#1328661)
Absolutely. Yes to both.

First, our company won't be going under any time soon -- while 95% of the features are free, there are an extra 5% available to power users as part of our "pro" package for ~$4/month. We also sell domains. We're strongly profitable, so you don't have to worry about us going under :)

But should you choose, you can export your site as a .zip file and host it somewhere else.

Also, you can choose from either a .weebly.com subdomain or point either your domain.com or blog.domain.com to us -- in either case, we'll still host your site free of charge.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by joshu on Sunday May 09, 2010 @03:53PM (#1332756)
I wish there were a non-saving demo account or something.
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by llimllib on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:07PM (#1328277)
Well, at the risk of derailing the conversation... I've extensively customized tumblr. I have beefs about some other elements of their service, but what sort of customization are you talking about that's not possible with tumblr?
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by inerte on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:16PM (#1328305)
Honest question, can you upload a script file (PHP/Perl/Python/ASP/Whatever) to tumblr and integrate it with other parts?

When I was freelancing I used to get a lot of requests like this: I want blog/comments/sharing, image gallery, video, and --insert business specific thing here--.

And Wordpress and its plugins make this easy(ier).

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by llimllib on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:27PM (#1328338)
No server-side code allowed, but you can work all the jquery magic you want and they have a facility for static pages with arbitrary URLs. I'd probably not recommend selling it to a business, because, for example, here's how I'd do an image gallery:

1) upload the pics to flickr 2) use jquery to grab the pics 3) make a static page to display them

Also, because it's clear that their service is designed for single-person blogs, their group blogs have some annoyances that range from minor to severe.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by elidourado on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:13PM (#1328292)
As I understand it, with Tumblr you can't customize your URL structure, you need to use external commenting systems, and your themes can't run non-js code. Also, many people use Wordpress as a hybrid CMS/blog; the ability to have pages (again with a defined url structure) is important.
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by llimllib on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:23PM (#1328323)
In order:

1) your blog will have to use their URL structure, /post/:id/:slug . But who is really bugged by that? Seems a sane structure to me.

2) fact. If disqus comments are a showstopper for you, you've got to find a different service.

3) fact, but I see that as a positive, not a negative. Why in the world do you want your themes running native code?

4) Tumblr has static pages with arbitrary URLs. Here's a screenshot of the interface: http://img.skitch.com/20100507-edeg31uwc25t9hkumww2j9hk4b.jp...

Tumblr has a great bookmarklet, a good iphone app, a good community, reasonable uptime, and a good admin and customization interface. I don't recommend their group blogs, though I have several, but I highly recommend their service for one person.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by elidourado on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:32PM (#1328347)
llimllib, thanks for the reply. I can think of a number of reasons that you might want to have dynamic elements in your theme. I understand the concern over themes running code, but if you want things like breadcrumbs and your CMS doesn't come with them as a native function then you need to be able to run native code. Ideally, the CMS would include a wide and extensible array of native functions that themes could take advantage of, but tumblr certainly isn't that CMS.

Good to know about the pages.

One other issue is file uploads. Say I want to host my CV at domain.com/CV.pdf. I don't think I could do that with Tumblr. Is that too much to ask?

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by joshu on Friday May 07, 2010 @05:26PM (#1328828)
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by gtt on Friday May 07, 2010 @05:53PM (#1328910)
IMHO there is a decent alternative called Byteflow http://byteflow.su/

based on django btw

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by zzzmarcus on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:54PM (#1328237)
I have 2 Wordpress blogs that get comparable amounts of traffic. They're both on the same shared hosting (MediaTemple), they're both updated at the same time.

One never seems to be touched, the other seems to have gotten a high spot on some l44t hax0r's list and is exploited just about every time there a security flaw is discovered. It's annoying to say the least.

Slowly over the years I've been moving everything that I don't absolutely have to host off shared hosting or VPS's and onto hosted services (I love Tumblr) that allow backups/exports. In my experience, it's just not worth the headaches to self-host things like blogs.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by kmano8 on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:22PM (#1328156)
Wordpress hosted on my linode vps seems just fine. Switching from godaddy to linode was more than worth the price increase.
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by mitchellhislop on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:36PM (#1328198)
Agreed. Also, making small changes to some of the config helps too. This is why I laugh at people who know nothing about hosting, permissions, or php in general deciding that they know WP, put it on a shared box without doing the proper setup, and then blame wordpress when it gets hacked.
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by tptacek on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:43PM (#1328214)
Most of the Wordpress breakins have been the fault of Wordpress' code, not admin incompetence.
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by niyazpk on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:53PM (#1328233)
Can you please point out some reasons why you think WordPress code is faulty?
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by tptacek on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:03PM (#1328261)
Note that you could tell me that Wordpress has changed drastically for the better since I stopped paying attention to it. I would concede that you might be right, but wouldn't change my recommendation at all. It's simply not worth arguing about. Here goes:

* It's written in PHP, a platform on which "remote file inclusion" vulnerabilities --- where attackers can source code to run on the server from MySpace --- continue to be found. I hesitate to bring this up, since (for instance) the last public vBulletin flaw that would have cost you your site goes back to 2008.

* It has an authentication design that uses the same database tables to track administrators who can run code on the site and anonymous Internet commenters.

* It has a template language that allows graphic designers to write templates that run code on your server.

* It hand-codes SQL statements largely out of concatenated queries.

* It is internationalized but has no coherent strategy for dealing with character sets and input filtering, on which it relies heavily, resulting in relatively recent vulnerabilities enabled by for instance UTF-7 inputs.

* It includes in the admin interface an editor for site templates that amounts to a remote login to the server, since, again, templates can run code.

* It has a vibrant community of plugins implemented by people who know exactly enough PHP to get their code working, which means every one of these flaws is repeated for every plugin developer.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by thaumaturgy on Friday May 07, 2010 @03:32PM (#1328487)
Also: it's impossible to move or rename the admin directory in Wordpress without modifying a bunch of its code. This IMO is grievously stupid, because attackers can (and do) throw injection attempts all day long at the admin bits of Wordpress sites.
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by mitchellhislop on Friday May 07, 2010 @07:53PM (#1329141)
I was referencing that correct file permissions, on a dedicated server, with a well-selected user (NOT admin) will do a LONG way in making it safer. Also, putting in the time to shore up the main holes is 100% worth it. Sure, there are holes in it, just like ANY framework. Simply setting it up right helps a ton. My comment is directed to people who just unzip, dump it on a shared GoDaddy server, and wonder why it gets hacked.
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by thaumaturgy on Sunday May 09, 2010 @06:14AM (#1331804)
No, it won't.

Everything that you just mentioned, at best, protects the server environment from Wordpress vulnerabilities -- and that's assuming that a novice could set up a dedicated server as tightly as good hosting companies set up shared hosts.

None of your recommendations do anything to make Wordpress itself any safer, and if the Wordpress db gets compromised (which happened recently to a lot of folks), then you still don't have much of a site left.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by fseek on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:16PM (#1328138)
Avoid Wordpress and shared hosts. They mention that all the sites hacked were on shared hosts.
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by ube on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:50PM (#1328392)
Avoid Wordpress...really? I can understand avoiding shared hosts because you have less control of the environment but going to an alternative blogging platform because it is more obscure than Wordpress seems to be a bad approach (and if you go with a vps solution you might have the headaches of maintaining a secure distro). This is like saying "you should use Linux or Mac because Windows gets attacked more".

Any piece of software that is popular (I saw a recent statistic that wordpress powers %10 of the top 1 million sites as ranked by Alexa) will be much more vulnerable to attack than less popular software. At the same time, you get a bigger community and all the goodies that come along with that popularity (more plug-ins, themes, etc...).

I don't think that getting rid of the software is the correct approach in this case. You need to approach it by assuming that your wordpress site will be attacked every day and you need to have a plan to remediate this. There is no perfect security unless you unplug your web server from the internet. For a one blogger site - one simple approach would be to:

1. Run something like open source tripwire (http://sourceforge.net/projects/tripwire/) on a nightly basis so you can get alerted if any wordpress files get changed (HN peoplez: anyone have a better tripwire-ish solution that is free?)

2. Run a nightly backup of your files and db and mail it to an external account (like a gmail account)

3. have a script that can reload your files and database quickly from your backups (obviously - this needs to be tested)

4. subscribe to the wordpress security list and to a blog like http://www.wpsecuritylock.com/blog/

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by tptacek on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:55PM (#1328401)
I agree that Wordpress gets attacked more, and has more vulnerabilities uncovered, because it is popular. Unfortunately, that isn't the only reason. It is the same worst-of-both-worlds combination that WinXP SP 1 was in 2003.
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by shadowsun7 on Friday May 07, 2010 @09:30PM (#1329333)
You seriously sure Wordpress is at fault here?

http://wordpress.org/support/topic/396524#post-1506114

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by andrewvc on Friday May 07, 2010 @03:36PM (#1328491)
Infrequent bugs are a feature, they keep users from having to upgrade their software, which is annoying. That's why I avoid Wordpress.

I've never looked at the WP codebase, but I'm just flabbergasted that a piece of blogging software that's been around this long has so many holes. Anyone who just wants to run a simple blog with minimum hassle on a VPS is terribly ill served by Wordpress.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by pronoiac on Friday May 07, 2010 @10:22PM (#1329399)
HN peoplez: anyone have a better tripwire-ish solution that is free?

AIDE - http://sourceforge.net/projects/aide/

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by ube on Monday May 10, 2010 @02:31AM (#1333733)
Thanks!
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by modoc on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:57PM (#1328409)
Do you have an alternative you recommend?
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by mattwdelong on Friday May 07, 2010 @03:30PM (#1328483)
Sunlight labs blogdor is suiting my needs perfectly. I will be forking and adding my contributions in the near future.

http://github.com/sunlightlabs/django-blogdor

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by bravura on Friday May 07, 2010 @03:47PM (#1328514)
How does this compare to Blogofile, http://www.blogofile.com/, a Python blog compiler that has a lot of blog features?
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by aw3c2 on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:37PM (#1328202)
Suggest a free php alternative please. I need categories, comments, human-readable urls.
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by hkuo on Friday May 07, 2010 @02:25PM (#1328335)
As I mentioned in my other comment, I give a thumbs up to Movable Type, particularly in regards to security. The only database access is done on the admin side. When you publish anything, it generates pure html pages. So only you access the database. Users only access html. There are no complexities between these two arrangements.

Movable Type takes just a little longer to set up than WordPress, but hey, many of us here are hackers right? Plus you can tweak the code to your heart's content.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by ElliotH on Friday May 07, 2010 @03:53PM (#1328532)
Static HTML is also a lot less resource intensive.

I think the main thing in the way of people using MT is that lots of people get their first introduction to blogging on some free WP hosting first and consider the switch to commercial shared hosting to be an upgrade. People like this wouldn't see switching blog platform as an upgrade so much as an inconvenience.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by tptacek on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:42PM (#1328212)
Weigh PHP, categories, comments, human-readable URLs, and convenience against retaining control of your content or (potentially) the server it lives on.

The people running Sendmail in the '90s went through all these arguments too.

It's hard to understand how a blog package could have created a worse track record than Sendmail (though I can tell you how). But it did.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by aw3c2 on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:43PM (#1328215)
That is not a solution to the problem. If there was only sendmail, should one stop sending mail?
Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by tptacek on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:44PM (#1328219)
I rejected your premise. I didn't try to solve your problem. Your need for PHP, categories, and whatever else doesn't make any difference. Wordpress will be as, insecure as it will be independent of your need for it not to be.

Again: avoid Wordpress. If you can't, you have my sympathy.

Re:New attacks today against Wordpress (lots of sites hacked) by chaosmachine on Friday May 07, 2010 @01:52PM (#1328231)
Drupal has those features, and a pretty reasonable security record. It's not as user friendly as WP, though.