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Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by brenschluss on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:27PM (#13177772)
I feel like this is a stunt. Drone delivery only works with customers that have private backyards - so won't work in a city, since the payload is unsecured after the drones drop it off. In a suburban/rural context, density is lower, meaning that with the limited range of drones, distribution centers won't be able to take advantage of density. Thus the range of products available at each distribution center will be much lower (it's much more efficient from an inventory/logistics standpoint to have one distribution center in midtown Manhattan with many products, rather than many distribution centers spread across the suburbs of NYC, say), forcing customers to choose from a given list of a few hundred products. Drone delivery is thus high convenience, ultra-high speed, low volume, high cost -- but more importantly, a low-choice process. What kind of things will you buy from a list that you need delivered within 30 minutes?
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by FroshKiller on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:35PM (#13177853)
I live in an urban area in the US. UPS, FedEx, and the USPS all drop my packages off unsecured at my front door as it is. What difference does it make whether it's a person in a truck or a drone doing it?

As an Amazon Prime member, I sometimes use Prime Now to get deliveries made in two hours from a limited selection of products, and that requires a minimum order and a delivery surcharge. It's still a great option that I take advantage of. I have to imagine I would also take advantage of an even faster drone delivery option for some things: snacks when I haven't gone shopping and have people coming over (and I can't be bothered to go out to do proper shopping beforehand), the odd household item I need but don't feel like driving to pick up, etc.

The "not driving" part is the key for me personally. I don't really like risking life and limb to buy potato chips.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by John23832 on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:46PM (#13177962)
USP, FedEx and the USPS all leave your packages in unsecured areas. These drones would have to literally drop your packages off in a city. Those are very different actions.

The logistics of even getting close enough to the ground to not obliterate your package, in an open enough area, while avoiding people and other obstacles (both stationary and moving) is a nonstarter for even small cities imo. Good luck in NYC.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by FroshKiller on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:52PM (#13178023)
You're overstating the dropping thing. I've had shipments with plenty of rough deliveries and rougher trips in the truck on the way to be delivered. Being carried in the air and lightly dropped from 10 or 20 feet off the ground isn't going to hurt my Blu-Ray copy of Captain America: Civil War.

I think when you guys say "cities," you're talking about some kind of nonexistent arcology of mile-high cyberpunk buildings where each tenant lives in 50 square feet. I live in a city, mere minutes from downtown, in a town home that is neither big nor fancy nor isolated. There is ample space to fly right up to my door step without ever coming close to any person or vehicle that could conceivably be close to my front door unless someone were standing in front of my front door, and even then, I'd probably lay out my special RFID-enabled chartreuse drone delivery area designation mat on my back deck instead or whatever. It's not a hard problem. All the hard parts have been solved. It's mostly legal now.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by John23832 on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:57PM (#13178076)
Yea, a blu-ray movie isn't hurt by a 20 foot drop. A blu-ray player is. Most packages are not made for shocks, just constant pressure (think the difference between someone punching you and someone sitting on you).

Also, I'd bet that what you consider a safe range for drone operation and what a federal aviation safety official (or non-US equivalent) considers safe are two totally different animals.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by FroshKiller on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @01:06PM (#13178160)
My threshold for what is safe is irrelevant, and we can change laws if we want.

I can walk down to my sidewalk and have a half-ton vehicle going 45 mph drive within 20 feet of me in a moment. There is no question in my mind that that circumstance is much more dangerous than any delivery drone you care to send coming within half that distance. We live with some very generous tolerances for risk.

But to speak to the Blu-Ray player being hurt by the drop, sure, but what makes you think every possible item to be delivered would need to be accounted for in modeling a service like this? I assume there's a narrow band of items that make good candidates, and I'm not interested in hypothetical problems with delivering items that aren't good candidates in the first place.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by John23832 on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @02:10PM (#13178760)
> My threshold for what is safe is irrelevant

>> There is ample space to fly right up to my door step without ever coming close to any person or vehicle

You used your threshold for safety as the basis of your argument.

> what makes you think every possible item to be delivered would need to be accounted for in modeling a service like this?

I think this because I highly doubt Amazon wants to make the move to drone delivery in order to move potato chips, or single video games, or movies which cost at most 70 bucks. The aim to automate delivery as a whole through drones, not automating special cases. We're not talking about a set of weights here. I gave the example of a single blu-ray player, which is a reasonable item for delivery.

Even if you want to stay with your special case, dropping items from 20ft in the air, or lowering a drone with spinning propellers to street level, in a city is a issue. Companies don't like potential liability.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by chris_7 on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @01:24PM (#13178316)
This sounds like your neighborhood needs some traffic calming. 20 is plenty.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by FroshKiller on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @01:37PM (#13178439)
It's funny you should say that. I've posted about traffic calming in my neighborhood before! It's calmed in one direction but not the other.

Still, even going 20 or 35 mph is enough to kill someone, and 20 feet is not a lot of room, especially with no barrier between the sidewalk and the car. Last weekend, a driver swerved to hit a car that was stopped in the street and struck the tree on the corner of my lot. Luckily, no one was hurt, but the key word is "luckily." Anyone who'd been on the sidewalk would've been paste.

Compare that to the rather less immediate concern of a drone that might fall out of the sky, a drone that might clip me.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by odaymansour on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @02:43PM (#13179030)
The point of reduced speed is not to avoid killing people when striking them, but to reduce the odds of a driver losing control of a car and ending up on the sidewalk.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by FroshKiller on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:32PM (#13179393)
Sure, a car going 5 mph is still going to kill you but is easier for the driver to control so it doesn't. But again, "reduce the odds." I don't care how slow you're forced to go around that curve, there's still nothing between you and me on the sidewalk but your hands and feet on the controls.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by Spooky23 on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:01PM (#13179161)
The BlueRay player you pickup in Best Buy survives getting tossed from top stock after closing just fine?
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by Jemmeh on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @05:45PM (#13180399)
On the contrary, I sell things online (and through Amazon) and it's common advice that we sellers treat packages as if they will be thrown/dropped, because during shipping they often are. More expensive products tend to have more padding since it's cheaper to add more airbags in than replace the product. And Amazon is of course incentive to not have products break all the time either, their customers wouldn't trust it anymore if it did. From my viewpoint as a seller, customer trust is a huge issue to Amazon. I've seen many high dollar accounts get shut down for potential trust issues.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by John23832 on Thursday December 15, 2016 @06:33AM (#13183879)
I agree that there is some protection for drops. However, the expected drop in an Amazon warehouse, or a UPS shipping center is not a 20 foot one. I'd doubt it's even a 10 foot one. I've seen the insides of both of those buildings (my local ones). Things get shaken, stacked, and dropped. A 20 meter drop is ridiculous, and the logistics of getting a drone 10 feet off the ground in a city is still and issue imo.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by Jemmeh on Thursday December 15, 2016 @10:05AM (#13185024)
I suppose it depends on the city, I guess in NYC where there are many people on the sidewalk it would be hard, but in Atlanta I don't think it'd be an issue, there's usually quite a lot of space.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by Zombieball on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:44PM (#13177944)
You nailed it. People frequently point out the unattended delivery aspect or talk about shooting drones from the air to get "free" packages.

At the end of the day it's a lot easier for theieves to just follow the UPS truck.

I am still waiting for Prime Now in Vancouver!

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by FrancoDiaz on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:25PM (#13179342)
From a physical standpoint, can a drone get to your front door?

I think targets are going to be inevitable. There's no way that a drone is going to be able to deliver to my front porch. It would be much easier to delivery to my deck in back.

The "not driving" part is the key for me personally. I don't really like risking life and limb to buy potato chips.

By chance, do you have vertigo?

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by FroshKiller on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:30PM (#13179373)
No, I don't have vertigo, just a healthy aversion to the deadliest routine task most of us engage in. The longer I go without an accident, the more aware I am that for all I do to minimize my risk factors while driving, I have no control over my fellow motorists.

But yeah, a drone could get to my front door. I agree with you, though, that having some way to designate the delivery area might be necessary.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by frakkingcylons on Thursday December 15, 2016 @12:40AM (#13182702)
I feel the exact same way about being on roads. Where I live (Texas), 3531 people died in a traffic fatality last year (including someone I knew) [0].

[0]: http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/trf/crash_statisti...

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by Guest98123 on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:05PM (#13179193)
Cities seem like the easiest challenge to tackle. Amazon could work with commercial and residential high rises and put a dock on their rooftops. So, the drone approaches the building rooftop, puts the package in the docking area (that keeps out poor weather), and then flies away. One of the receptionists could then get a notification of a new package, pick it up, and either put it in the appropriate mailbox, or hold it at the desk.

Want to get more advanced and efficient? When your package is delivered, Amazon sends you an access key to the dock. You can now go to the rooftop, type in your access key, and get access to the room to get your package. After it's claimed, your access key expires. This means only people with packages inside the dock have access. Yes, technically if you get a package delivered, you could access the room, and steal a package from someone else. However, there would likely be a camera in the room, and there's a record of you having access, so I can't see it being an issue. You could offset the risk even more by having 10 compartments in the docking area, so there's a 10x less chance of someone else having access to the same compartment. Right now I walk through my modern condo and see packages sitting in front of doors, in hallways without cameras, and there isn't a problem.

There might be 1,000 people living in a high rise, or thousands working in one. It would be easy to get tens of thousands of people access to air deliveries at home and work with a dozen docks. It's also a great selling point for offices and condos. "Our building allows you to receive air deliveries."

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by pkroll on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:27PM (#13179355)
A rooftop of a residential high rise isn't a place filled with machinery, it's patio space. The whole top floor is either one or two apartments, has 14' high ceilings, and the very richest live there. They're not gonna want Amazon to land a drone in the middle of their party, nor have anyone come up to say Hi and pick up a package.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by Guest98123 on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:54PM (#13179559)
That's simply not true. Take a look at Google maps and you'll realize the vast majority of residential high rises are actually filled with equipment, huge fans, loud air-conditioners and empty space. Most have terraces and pools on lower floors, and most penthouses don't have rooftop access.

For example, look at the below image of high rise condos in Chicago. They're all filled with heavy equipment. They're not filled with the super rich having extravagant cocktail parties.

http://i.imgur.com/QC8rakm.jpg

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by arantius on Thursday December 15, 2016 @10:53AM (#13185385)
In my experience in NYC, most buildings have some mechanical and some recreational space somewhere on their roofs and/or balconies. Sometimes this is private recreational space, sometimes shared, sometimes a little of both.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by pmoriarty on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @04:29PM (#13179826)
Amazon already has an "Amazon Locker"[1] service in selected areas. Drone delivery could certainly be integrated with some of those.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Locker

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by ekzy on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @01:44PM (#13178521)
> won't work in a city

You could have a kind of platform coming out of your front window (not necessarily for it to land, but to receive the package). Now imagine it would be fully automated, as the drone approach, the platform comes out or open, receives the items, comes back in. The mailbox of the future. We call it the iPost, and we think you're gonna love it

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by niftich on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @01:52PM (#13178591)
A fold-down package-and-letter receipt platform is a great idea. If only names like iPad, Mailnet, Box Net weren't taken.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by jtolmar on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @02:04PM (#13178709)
In Seattle, at least, it's very common for apartments to have tiny private balconies. If a drone can deliver to one of those, it will be more convenient than trying to deal with the average apartment complex's mailroom.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by sqeaky on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:13PM (#13179252)
This sounds interesting but there are at least some problems to overcome to make it practical.

How does the drone identify apartment 5b from 4c?

Most balconies like that in my area (Omaha) have another balcony on the next floor up in roughly the same size and shape. How reliable are the flight algorithms when dealing with cielings? How does that affect airflow?

What happens when a drone gets the wrong balcony?

What happens when a drone delivery is canceled because of patio furniture, potted plants, incorrect patio dimension from the local record keepers or whatever other problem with a private landing platform?

None of these are insurmountable, they just haven't been surmounted yet.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by jtolmar on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:38PM (#13179440)
My preferred solution for a variety of these is that you buy a transmitter from Amazon, and the drone tries to home in on it once it gets to your address. The ideal transmitter would be wide and flat, so the drone can just drop packages on it, and so any place you could fit it also has a reasonable chance of having enough clearance. You could incentivize buying them using the same mechanics as Amazon's dash buttons.

Doesn't help with complex patio furniture though, and ceilings are a genuinely hard problem. (Most apartments in Seattle are like that too.)

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by sqeaky on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @04:46PM (#13179955)
The thing could even fold up for easy storage. If it could unfold to be a square a meter in size (or a bit larger) then Amazon could get even to the point where they land or hover just above.

It could have tiny legs and the actual target area could be a foot above the ground and it could be a net (so the wind the drone makes blows through harmlessly). Then it can catch a package dropped from a few feet.

Amazon, you have my written permission to use this idea and sell me this product.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by discreteevent on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:44PM (#13179487)
> How does the drone identify apartment 5b from 4c?

Go out on the balcony with a phone app that prompts you to take pictures of the view in all directions. It sends these along with GPS coordinates to Amazon.

Drone flies to GPS coordinates and then descends until it's views 'match' those in the pictures you took.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by manmal on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @01:49PM (#13178568)
In the future, I can imagine having drop off zones (one for every block, e.g. upgraded food/newspaper kiosks in very high density areas), where you can gather your packages if you provide the correct code/QR image. Or even pay only if and when you pick it up?

I can already order groceries online and pick them up myself for a small fee, here in Austria. Using drones would just take it farther and quicker, and I would have a lot more choices available. USB-C adapter I need for my new MacBook RIGHT NOW? Check. That new book? Check. Exotic batteries for my audio equipment? Yep.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by ant6n on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:32PM (#13179391)
You mean I have to leave my building?!
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by manmal on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @07:22PM (#13181110)
How else would you retrieve a drone delivered package on the 6th floor with a balcony too small to land on?
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by ant6n on Saturday December 17, 2016 @11:49AM (#13201319)
Roof
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by elahd on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:31PM (#13177816)
>so won't work in a city, since the payload is unsecured after the drones drop it off

My building's roof is at least as secure as its lobby.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by tantalor on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:38PM (#13177886)
Generally you are prohibited from accessing your building's roof unless it has a patio.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by elahd on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @01:02PM (#13178118)
If drone delivery becomes an actual thing, roof access for package pickup will be offered as an amenity. Services like Fresh Direct have prompted doorman buildings in NYC to start offering cold storage rooms to keep produce fresh until pickup.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by 51Cards on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:39PM (#13177896)
From everyone else in your building? What's top stop the guy in 5B going "Hey... package... thanks" I see a huge uptick in stolen packages. Heck the drones themselves would make a nice parts source flying free over the city. Just have to pick off a couple of them now and then.

I think the point when this becomes in any way practical is really really far off. Interesting demo for sure but pretty sure I'll never have something delivered this way in my lifetime.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by jonknee on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:44PM (#13177942)
A lot of buildings already do that with packages that are delivered to the front door, I doubt in building neighbors stealing your stuff will be an issue.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by elahd on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:58PM (#13178085)
Yeah, this. UPS/FedEx/USPS just leave packages in the lobby of non-doorman buildings. People tend to respect other people's packages and security cameras help enforce honesty. In years of living in Manhattan I've only had one package go missing -- turned out that it was stolen by the UPS driver (new iPhone on release day in a Verizon branded box).
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by jdietrich on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @02:44PM (#13179045)
>What's top stop the guy in 5B going "Hey... package... thanks"

Basic human decency, reciprocal honesty, a $60 Wifi surveillance camera.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by kbenson on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @01:21PM (#13178283)
On one hand, the pool of likely suspects is rather small, and the punishment can actually be rather big if it's USPS, since it's a federal crime. I see that mail fraud laws apply to other carriers such as UPS/Fedex, but I'm not sure if that also extends to mail theft. That said, the reason it applies is because they cross state lines, so I'm not sure if the specific case has to include that as well, which if we're talking about drone delivery, is unlikely.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by huehehue on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:48PM (#13177977)
When the regulators start regulating, I imagine they'll introduce serious penalties for shooting down an aircraft.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by snrplfth on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:54PM (#13178048)
I'm pretty sure that shooting down aircraft is already illegal. IANAL, though.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by madamelic on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:08PM (#13179218)
Yeah, really not sure about that one.

Who knows really? Don't mind me, just going to take my AA gun back home.

(Plus, let's also factor in the fact firing weapons inside a city is illegal. But don't mind me)

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by zild3d on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:12PM (#13179241)
Most apartment buildings without a doorman already have this going on, and have for years. My building has a pile of amazon boxes everyday by the front door
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by davidverhasselt on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:31PM (#13177805)
I can see drones being used in cities to dump packages into the top of packet vending machines that already exist, that open up with a PIN code. It'd be much easier too because the route can be hardcoded towards the machine.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by kuschku on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:42PM (#13177919)
That's a good idea. Combine it with a DHL Packstation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packstation in every building, or, in more suburbian areas, every street, and you solved deliveries.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by petra on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:49PM (#13179520)
In cities, delivery drivers ship 600 packages/day into packet vending machines, vs only 60 regular delivery, and regular deliveries via usps cost less than $2 for amazon.,

So i don't think a drone , in this high density case could offer much savings.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by Spooky23 on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @02:58PM (#13179144)
Suburban or low density neighborhoods are the most expensive delivery points for a courier like UPS.

It makes no sense in dense urban environments in the same sense that storage lockers don't make sense in the burbs.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by heisnotanalien on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:59PM (#13179594)
They ordered a fire tv and popcorn. Of course it's a stunt!
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by erikpukinskis on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @04:45PM (#13179951)
Why does this argument keep coming up? "This product will fail because less than 100% of people can make use of it" I see the same thing all the time for electric cars: "Won't work, because not everyone has a garage for charging".

What new product ever had an addressable market of 6 billion people on launch? Do people not realize that you can still have a successful product even if your market is limited to 100 million customers?

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by cle on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @03:02PM (#13179165)
Do you think Amazon is going to release this and stop working on it? Of course not. This is a logical first step.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by mikeash on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @02:02PM (#13178689)
I noticed that their first customer lives in the wilderness and the package got delivered a substantial distance from his house. I'm sure that will get better with time, but for right now it definitely seems stunt-like. I guess they have to start somewhere.
Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by beachstartup on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:47PM (#13177970)
many urban buildings have rooftop access. having a landing pad (could be nothing more than a rubber mat with a giant QR code on it) would be workable if the resident can confirm a delivery time to be on the roof. or they could leave the package there, if the building residents use it like a shared mail area.

having said all that this idea of drones flying around all over the place semiautonomously is crazy to me. maybe i'm getting old.

Re:Amazon has made its first drone delivery to an actual cus... by snrplfth on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @12:50PM (#13177998)
This is a good point. Drones will probably be used for very prompt delivery. So the problem of unsecured packages will probably not be that important, for the same reasons that the problem of unsecured delivered pizzas is not that important.