News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by scentoni on Sunday December 04, 2016 @12:47PM (#13100844)
The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Congress was a confederation of sovereign states. When that failed, the sovereign states ceded their sovereignty to form a new Federal government with a constitution that supersedes state law. There was a war fought over this.
Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by paulddraper on Sunday December 04, 2016 @06:25PM (#13102333)
The U.S. has a federal government.

> Federal n. formed by a compact between political units that surrender their individual sovereignty to a central authority but retain limited residuary powers of government

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/federal

Senate representation is by state, 3/4 states have to ratify Constitutional amendments, the Constitution reverses rights for states, etc.

The Civil War was fought over the right of states to break their contract, not the importance of existent states as political units.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by tjic on Monday December 05, 2016 @07:43AM (#13104996)
A quibble: the Constitution says nothing about states not being able to exit. In fact, the 9th and 10th amendments say that powers not delegated to the Fed are reserved for the people and states...strongly suggesting that states _DO_ have a right of exit.

So let's not say "the right of states to BREAK their contract" and instead say "the right of states to EXIT their contract".

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by paulddraper on Monday December 05, 2016 @08:28AM (#13105161)
I never said they did or didn't. Your quibble is with Abraham Lincoln, not with me.
Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by umanwizard on Sunday December 04, 2016 @01:24PM (#13101025)
They ceded some of their sovereignty, as outlined in the Constitution.

The Constitution supersedes state law, yes, but random federal statutes do not.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by javagram on Sunday December 04, 2016 @03:27PM (#13101625)
Federal statues also supersede state law, under the supremacy clause of the constitution.

That said, the states are still considered sovereign and residents of the several states live under a dual sovereignty of their state and the US government. Sometimes this leads to unpleasant consequences, such as being charged for the same crime in both state and federal courts because the Double Jeopardy clause of the constitution is considered to only prevent double prosecution under the same sovereignty.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by imh on Sunday December 04, 2016 @07:28PM (#13102585)
>Federal statues also supersede state law, under the supremacy clause of the constitution.

How does that mesh with the states legalizing marijuana?

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by mikeryan on Sunday December 04, 2016 @08:40PM (#13102846)
Not well. The Feds have chosen not to enforce the laws in the states which have legalized marijuana. In fact a lot of marijuana laws have suffered from selective enforcement. Whether that continues with the incoming administration is a huge question.

I was listening to the Freakanomica podcast last week and it was discussing the power of the president and one commenter said that one of the presidents "real" powers is selecting which laws to enforce (via their Attorney General) there could be some huge battles coming up. Ironically if the Feds choose to enforce the federal laws in states which have legalized marijuana it would be contrary to the emphasis on states rights eschewed by most conservatives.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by singlow on Sunday December 04, 2016 @11:46PM (#13103420)
I think you mean "espoused" not "eschewed".
Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by Noseshine on Monday December 05, 2016 @03:00AM (#13104030)
You opened a can of worms for me. As a non-native (but very comfortable) English speaker I wasn't quite sure about the pronunciation of "eschew" because I can't remember to have ever used it, or when I last heard it.

https://stancarey.wordpress.com/2016/02/19/how-do-you-pronou...

Turns out there is a multitude of pronunciations to choose from.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by umanwizard on Wednesday December 07, 2016 @01:14AM (#13120822)
Native English speakers are in the same boat a lot of the time. My reading vocabulary is a strict superset of the words I know how to pronounce, and I suspect the same is true for everyone who speaks a language with a non-regular writing system.
Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by bmelton on Monday December 05, 2016 @03:48AM (#13104178)
This is some relevant reading from a credible authority:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...

The short version is that the federal government has the power to pass laws, but under federalism, the states are not obligated to help the federal government enforce those laws.

That's how sanctuary cities and the like are born -- by states simply refusing to assist the federal government in their endeavors.

State marijuana legalization is a slightly different animal. On the one hand, they're exercising their anti-commandeering power (by refusing to arrest marijuana users). On the other hand, they're directly defying the supremacy clause by passing laws contrary to the federal laws, which is a step beyond anti-commandeering.

It hasn't been tested in court, but a likely argument would be one based on Marbury v Madison, in which the relevant portion is that congress may not pass an unconstitutional law. American jurisprudence tells us that an unconstitutional law need not be enforced by any court, officer or person, as an unconstitutional law is not a law at all. The states, if challenged, could assert that a federal ban on marijuana is unconstitutional on its face as it flies in the face of both the 9th and 10th amendments (and possibly the 5th, with maybe a sprinkling of the 14th, depending).

Of course, that hasn't happened, and this is all conjecture, and it's a crapshoot as to whether or not it would work, but it's not impossible that the federal government hasn't exerted too much top down pressure on early marijuana states because they wouldn't want to chance the precedent of losing.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by imh on Monday December 05, 2016 @06:35PM (#13110915)
>The states, if challenged, could assert that a federal ban on marijuana is unconstitutional on its face as it flies in the face of both the 9th and 10th amendments (and possibly the 5th, with maybe a sprinkling of the 14th, depending).

This part sounds critical, but I don't quite follow. If you're willing to expand on that, I'd love to hear about it.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by bmelton on Monday December 05, 2016 @07:06PM (#13111100)
I'll try to put this as straightforwardly as possible, but it's a meandering topic at best. The gist of what I'm referring to is found here[1], so you should probably stop and read that first. Past that, the relevant things are two main doctrines, the first is the 9th[2] and 10th[3] amendments collectively, and the other is "enumerated powers[4]".

So, the general principle is that 1) Congress doesn't have the power to do anything that they are not expressly authorized to do by the constitution, or that is not obviously implied by an enumerated power (for example, if I expressly enumerated you the power to apportion the jelly beans, it would be implied that you could count the jelly beans, audit the jelly beans, etc.) Because congress is not expressly enumerated any power to make marijuana illegal, the states (if challenged) could assert that they have neither an enumerated or implied power to do so, and the laws that they made to illegalize marijuana consumption were not constitutional to begin with. Under the interstate commerce clause[5], they may have the ability to 'regulate' the sale and/or distribution of marijuana, but banning it for private consumption may be a bridge too far considering...

The Ninth Amendment, which states "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people," combined with the Tenth Amendment, which states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people," means that the powers of the federal government should not be used to take powers away from the citizenry, and that any powers not delegated to the federal government (expressly or implied) are reserved to the states or the people. It is this last clause that allows states to decline orders by the federal government where are not obviously granted those powers to the federal government by the constitution.

Put simply, the general position is that the federal government has supremacy on matters that the constitution says it should, but should defer to the people or the states on powers the constitution doesn't mention. Because the federal government doesn't have the power to ban marijuana, then the states could argue that, and assert their own soveriegnty on its regulation. Because the states would be granting more rights to the people than the federal government in this scenario, and because the burden of enforcing it would be exclusive to the individual states, they would have a pretty good claim on grounds of federalism.

[1] - http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/16amjur2nd.htm

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninth_Amendment_to_the_United_...

[3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_...

[4] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_of_the_United_States_Co...

[5] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by jeremyjh on Sunday December 04, 2016 @07:41PM (#13102621)
DOJ is not widely enforcing federal drug laws against citizens complying with state laws - at the direction of the current administration - but they could do so in the future.
Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by dragonwriter on Monday December 05, 2016 @06:40PM (#13110950)
States legalizing marijuana are simply removing separate state criminal prohibitions on marijuana and deciding not to spend resources helping the Feds enforce their prohibition.

It is still illegal under federal law, though the current administration is presently not prioritizing enforcement of federal law regarding marijuana when the offense is within the scope permitted under state law.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by justinator on Sunday December 04, 2016 @09:49PM (#13103053)
There's a BIG problem with banking, as in: pot businesses can't open a bank account for the business, as the you hit Federal laws about distributing funds for Federally illegal business practices (selling drugs that are illegal to sell under Federal law), making pot shops basically cash only.

Which is absolute madness.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by gozur88 on Monday December 05, 2016 @05:55AM (#13104655)
Technically, you can be arrested and charged with federal possession of a schedule one drug if you have any amount of marijuana in any state, including those states which have made it legal under state law. That's potentially a year in the federal pen.

State legalization of marijuana just means you can't be prosecuted under state law.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by mnglkhn2 on Sunday December 04, 2016 @03:03PM (#13101503)
Try telling Texas that it is merely a "province"!
Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by Retric on Sunday December 04, 2016 @04:14PM (#13101815)
Texas is actually a lot more liberal than you might think and mostly does not care about it's history. It's even moving to the center consider Mitt Romney actually had a much wider margin in Texas than Trump.

Anyway, North and South Dakota where split simply to add 2 senators at the time. DC is not a state for the opposite reason. Face it, states are completely arbitrary lines on a map.

There is even a poorly drawn line approximately on the 37 degrees north was codified without reference to where the actual 37 degrees north actually was.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by humanrebar on Monday December 05, 2016 @08:19AM (#13105120)
> ...Mitt Romney actually had a much wider margin in Texas than Trump.

Texans absolutely care about Texas history. You regularly hear the 'we have an independent power grid' and jokes about secession come up in conversation, etc. There are many possible reasons why Mitt Romney would have had a wider margin in Texas than Trump. It's premature to jump to the conclusion that it's turning 'purple or something'.

That being said, Texas is a bigger and more diverse place than popular culture respects. The center of Houston, Dallas, Austin, and similar zip codes are definitely 'blue' country.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by protomyth on Sunday December 04, 2016 @08:49PM (#13102884)
DC is not a state because it is supposed to be neutral ground.
Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by rspeer on Monday December 05, 2016 @05:02AM (#13104439)
And that would even make sense if it only included the part with the White House, the Capitol, the Mall and stuff. But it turns out to also include a city where a half million disenfranchised people live.

(I think DC statehood does sound like a complicated mess, and the best solution -- if politically feasible -- would be to shrink it. You'd have the populous city of Washington, MD, and a tiny federal District of Columbia, coexisting like Rome and the Vatican. The problem is that Maryland doesn't want it.)

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by acjohnson55 on Monday December 05, 2016 @09:47AM (#13105617)
I think Maryland's simply gonna have to take one for the team. But yeah, I do dig the idea of redefining DC to be far smaller, ideally with zero citizens.
Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by Zach_the_Lizard on Monday December 05, 2016 @04:54AM (#13104403)
Not really. I'm sure the riots in front the Capitol in Philadelphia led to thoughts of needing control for safety reasons (Pennsylvania didn't intervene).

Originally DC residents would vote in Virginia or Maryland Congressional elections depending on where the territory was taken from (note: all DC land that came from VA has been returned to VA).

I think the idea originally is few would live in DC; it was tiny for a long, long time. But that's no longer true, hence why we gave DC the right to vote for President. Congress would be trickier given the balance of power, but none of the original motivating factors apply.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by ap22213 on Monday December 05, 2016 @04:48AM (#13104374)
"Face it, states are completely arbitrary lines on a map."

And, what remains of state control ends up being a unwanted complexity to a lot of us.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by chronic92 on Sunday December 04, 2016 @09:27PM (#13102996)
> Texas is actually a lot more liberal than you might think and mostly does not care about it's history. It's even moving to the center consider Mitt Romney actually had a much wider margin in Texas than Trump.

You are certainly not from Texas. Stop trying to believe it is leaning center and will someday be democrat/liberal. Texans are the most prideful about their state and are proud of their rich history unlike other top states like California and New York.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by Retric on Sunday December 04, 2016 @09:52PM (#13103064)
Dallas county: Hillary: 458,845 votes Trump: 261,865

That's just one of several very blue parts of a overall Red state. Even with heavy gerrymandering and only 1 close race Texas still sent Dem. 11 vs. Rep. 25 to the House.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by MichaelBurge on Sunday December 04, 2016 @01:13PM (#13100977)
They ceded a specific and enumerated list of powers, reserving all others to the states.

Here is a small sample that shows some thoughts of the primary drafter of the Constitution(reference is Federalist Papers 45):

Within every district to which a federal collector would be allotted, there would not be less than thirty or forty, or even more, officers of different descriptions, and many of them persons of character and weight, whose influence would lie on the side of the State. The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.

I chose taxation as a topic only because Madison gave concrete numbers. Here:

* Using the number of tax collectors as a rough metric, the federal government was planned to be about 30-40 times smaller than all individual states combined. I don't know the 2016 figures.

* He affirms that the federal government "[...]will be exercised principally on external objects", which would seem to oppose redrawing state lines for the convenience of local matters(such as city boundaries). Though, if all states in question consented to having their borders redrawn, it does seem like the federal government should still at least approve.

So I'm not sure I buy this argument that the Federal government was designed at the outset to be this all-consuming entity that can stomp all over states however it pleases, though there certainly has been a recent trend that way. Hopefully the upcoming Supreme Court appointments can reverse this trend.

Given the topic, this sentence is also worth reading:

If the new Constitution be examined with accuracy and candor, it will be found that the change which it proposes consists much less in the addition of NEW POWERS to the Union, than in the invigoration of its ORIGINAL POWERS.

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by umanwizard on Sunday December 04, 2016 @01:26PM (#13101033)
It sounds even more strong: he thought the federal government would be 30-40 times stronger than each individual state.
Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by nardi on Sunday December 04, 2016 @01:38PM (#13101108)
I think that's the exact opposite of what's written.

"Within every district to which a federal collector would be allotted, there would not be less than thirty or forty...whose influence would lie on the side of the State."

Re:Four Million Commutes Reveal New U.S. 'Megaregions' by umanwizard on Sunday December 04, 2016 @01:43PM (#13101133)
I guess you're right -- the "districts" in question are subsets of States, so he's saying something like "for every one federal official in Phoenix, there would be at least 30-40 Arizona officials".