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Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by napierzaza on Friday April 30, 2010 @07:20AM (#1307812)
And better products and better design
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by codingthewheel on Friday April 30, 2010 @07:22AM (#1307816)
Right. Like that monument to best-practices software development, iTunes for Windows.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by bruceboughton on Friday April 30, 2010 @08:09AM (#1307899)
I often hear people beating down on iTunes on Windows. Can someone explain what is wrong with it? I understand that it's not based on Cocoa, but aside from that what problems does it have?
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by RyanMcGreal on Friday April 30, 2010 @08:29AM (#1307952)
Big, slow, bloated, heavy-handed with settings (no, I don't want Safari, or QuickTime, or for you to phone home every five minutes), leaks memory, installs wads of silent 'helper' processes, non-native UI, frequent crashes, insanely jealous of all other ways to add songs to iPods...
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by omaranto on Friday April 30, 2010 @08:54AM (#1308007)
It's very very slow, it crashes often, the UI is weird and hard to figure out (maybe it's more intuitive for Mac users?) and it has several annoying bugs: when syncing with my iPod it often marks podcasts I've listened to, or partially listened to as unlistened; it often hangs when trying to connect to the iTunes store (this is remedied by running "ipconfig /flushdns" at the command line); if I buy something from my wishlist it only removes from the wishlist about half the time. And every time it updates itself it tries to install Safari...
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by SlyShy on Friday April 30, 2010 @08:29AM (#1307951)
It's laggy, stuttery, junk. It's basically the only non-game application I can run that'll spike my CPU to 100%.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by cdonnellytx on Friday April 30, 2010 @07:33PM (#1309745)
It is a sub-standard app based on a cross-platform layer of software (Carbon) that has not been updated to take advantage of platform enhancements (i.e., Windows 7).

Granted, it's not third-party since Apple owns the Carbon layer and iTunes, but then again, Flash isn't third-party for Adobe's in-house developers for the very same reason. Perhaps this is what Jobs means by "painful experience".

Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by rbanffy on Friday April 30, 2010 @07:38AM (#1307850)
I am pretty sure that's because they couldn't bother to port Cocoa to Windows.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by ryoshu on Friday April 30, 2010 @08:51AM (#1308000)
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by rbanffy on Friday April 30, 2010 @09:04AM (#1308026)
And that's why iTunes is so bad - because it shares code with the Windows version that can't be Cocoa.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by JamieEi on Friday April 30, 2010 @10:08AM (#1308187)
Lots of people write great code on Windows. There's no reason why Apple couldn't too, if it cared.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by rbanffy on Friday April 30, 2010 @10:15AM (#1308202)
I agree they could make the core cross-platform and build platform-specific GUIs, but, apart from making Windows appear to suck less when compared to Macs, what would they gain from it?

I don't particularly like iTunes, but it does two jobs for Apple: it syncs iPods and makes Windows look bad.

Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by rbanffy on Friday April 30, 2010 @07:21AM (#1307815)
Microsoft's keyboards are much better than Apple's
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by robin_reala on Friday April 30, 2010 @08:06AM (#1307894)
Microsoft’s mice certainly are.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by rbanffy on Friday April 30, 2010 @09:04AM (#1308029)
That latest Apple multi-touch mouse is very nice.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by steveklabnik on Friday April 30, 2010 @10:39AM (#1308260)
I voted you back up to 1. Keep expressing your preferences. I don't know why you were downvoted.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by robin_reala on Friday April 30, 2010 @11:20AM (#1308369)
Having tried to use one for an afternoon I found it gave me hand cramp. I think my problem though is with heavy mice in general, which is why I tend to avoid wireless ones (batteries add appreciable weight).

What I don’t understand is why Apple haven’t done a standalone version of their Macbook trackpads. I’d buy one of those for sure.

Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by bemmu on Friday April 30, 2010 @09:12AM (#1308043)
The tiny wireless Apple keyboard is the best keyboard ever.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by fr0man on Friday April 30, 2010 @09:28AM (#1308076)
Maybe from a hardware perspective, but not from a usability perspective. No right control key. No page up or page down. No home or end. No delete key. No number keypad. I was in love with the ergonomics of it...for about a day.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by zefhous on Friday April 30, 2010 @11:06AM (#1308325)
Home and end are function-left/function-right, Page up/down are function up/down, and what you're calling "delete" (Apple calls it forward delete) is function-delete. This is how the whole line of Apple portables are...

Not sure how those work if you're not using a Mac. Maybe you can remap the right Option to Control? Control isn't near as important for most Mac users since Macs use Command where windows uses Control.

Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by fr0man on Friday April 30, 2010 @12:09PM (#1308548)
I'm using it for both. I find it tolerable under OSX (precisely because of the Command key thing), though I don't like chording for things when there's a perfectly good one key option (like delete, home and end). And how do you Shift+Home/End for selecting? I forget, I know it's possible, but it's also a pain. I finally just punted and bought a Logitech Wave for it. I like it much better.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by KirinDave on Friday April 30, 2010 @11:11AM (#1308339)
You have a curious definition of keyboard usability. I was unaware key presence was keyboard usability.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by fr0man on Friday April 30, 2010 @12:07PM (#1308538)
Perhaps you're right. I guess it's more of a keyboard efficiency thing. I can still DO everything I can on a full keyboard, just much less efficiently.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by KirinDave on Friday April 30, 2010 @02:04PM (#1308905)
Well, I don't think that's what a portable lightweight bluetooth keyboard is for. It's very comfortable to type on, is fairly durable, and is quite light and reasonably small. It's not meant to replace a full keyboard, just to be a decent substitute.

That said, once I did the ctrl/caps remapping I've used that keyboard extensively with emacs and only occasionally did I feel any real limitations.

Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by fr0man on Friday April 30, 2010 @04:30PM (#1309327)
Except it's what came with my full-size 27'' beast of an iMac. That sort of thing should come with a full keyboard or something that's supposed to be a substitute for it. If I'd gotten it with a laptop purchase, then yeah, I wouldn't be complaining. It would be pretty cool for that. It works fine with Vim, but not XCode or Visual Studio, which are my two primary uses for the iMac purchase.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by blasdel on Friday April 30, 2010 @08:08PM (#1309808)
They let you choose which of several keyboard-mouse combos you want with your computer, all for the same price.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by fr0man on Saturday May 01, 2010 @07:11AM (#1310421)
Not at Best Buy, apparently. I probably still would have chosen the smaller one and then lived to regret it, though.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by butterfi on Friday April 30, 2010 @12:54PM (#1308691)
My physical therapist actually made me switch to the smaller wireless keyboard, and the lingering remnants of my RSD went away. Just shortening the distance between keyboard and mouse made a huge difference.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by catch23 on Friday April 30, 2010 @07:23AM (#1307817)
Eh, depends on the person. I prefer smaller keyboards like the happy hacker keyboard. Apple has a bluetooth version of it which I love. I prefer keyboards that are laptop-style (shallow key depth).
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by rbanffy on Friday April 30, 2010 @07:37AM (#1307846)
I would love a "Natural Happy Hacker Ergonomic Keyboard".
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by malvim on Friday April 30, 2010 @10:59AM (#1308306)
Agreed. It's just silly to claim "better marketing" is what make people like Apple. Windows is still the most widely used consumer OS in the market: That's also marketing.

OSX is great software, the iPhone is a great product, the original Macintosh changed computing forever. That, IMHO, is not "just better marketing".

Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by baguasquirrel on Friday April 30, 2010 @07:29AM (#1307829)
That possibly makes them more dangerous.
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by rbanffy on Friday April 30, 2010 @07:37AM (#1307848)
Evil and competent make a potent mixture...
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by ecaradec on Friday April 30, 2010 @07:41AM (#1307853)
"be evil" could be quite a fun motto
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by nielsandersen on Friday April 30, 2010 @08:54AM (#1308010)
Apple: "Think Evil"
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by rbanffy on Friday April 30, 2010 @10:38AM (#1308258)
Re:Apple is just Microsoft with better marketing by MaysonL on Friday April 30, 2010 @11:05AM (#1308322)