News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by legodt on Tuesday November 29, 2016 @09:43PM (#13068030)
This is a good way to acrue massive, immediate backlash on HN. Calling alt-righters out for being neonazis and reminding people that hate speech isn't free speech is apparently over the line for a subset of users here.
Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by throwanem on Tuesday November 29, 2016 @09:54PM (#13068096)
Arrant falsehood does tend to gravel people, I suppose.

I'm not sure what anyone expects to gain by doubling down on the goodthink echo chamber that's just lost them an election. Emotional comfort, perhaps? I'm not without sympathy for the need - but that's a private matter. Governance in the US is public, and refusing to engage in the process merely cedes the field. Demonizing one's political opponents not only cedes the field but energizes them with just resentment, and I should think the events of this past month should suffice anyone as a lesson in why that might not be the best of all available tactics - but perhaps I extend more credit than due.

Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by fnovd on Tuesday November 29, 2016 @10:09PM (#13068183)
"One wonders if these people are people at all, or instead soulless golem"[1]

The rise of neonazism in the US is real. To claim otherwise, to imply that it is an "arrant falsehood," is to be purposefully ignorant.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-LnO2DOGE

Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by internaut on Tuesday November 29, 2016 @10:40PM (#13068307)
Spencer was being deliberately provocative. He knows the media will only play a handful of sound bites to spin their tales, so he gave it to them on a platter to achieve maximum coverage. And it worked. He is now the Great Satan, which apparently means lots of long interviews with major television and radio stations.

For clarity, that quote is referring to journalists and the media. Not Jews, as some have been heavily implying.

I'd like to remind people here that this is exactly Trump's playbook. You infuriate people, they are eager to take you out of context or extrapolate wildly, then curious passersby figure your accusers are not credible.

It's not a high moral ground tactic, but it sure works.

Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by fnovd on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @01:52PM (#13073499)
>For clarity, that quote is referring to journalists and the media. Not Jews, as some have been heavily implying.

This absolutely false. The word "zombie" is what people go to when they think of a mindless being. The word "golem" is what a nazi would say as a dogwhistle to let people know he's down with hating (((Jews))).

We Jews said we would never forget, and we haven't.

Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by internaut on Thursday December 01, 2016 @03:01AM (#13077971)
I am aware of the associations with 'golem' and 'lugenpresse'. And I know the alt-right really hate the media.

You're probably not aware fnovd, then many of the attendees were themselves Jewish, including those of 'Heiling' fame.

http://www.thewrap.com/tila-tequila-jewish-friends-nazi-sieg...

These people are trolling. This is classic trolling. They know this causes people to react and how the media works. For instance The Atlantic in their video on the NPI conference showed apparently 'dozens' of people doing the 'Heil' salute, but if you examine the footage closely you'll notice Richard Spencer is in fact holding up a water glass in one hand and the camera is being positioned multiple times in such a way to make the same three people look like six or nine people. There are classic camera tricks in that video actually to form your opinion (e.g. selective blurring), I'm sure you'll see them too if you go and look.

This is also trolling with a purpose in order to attract the right enemies.

As I said, this is not the high moral ground. Nonetheless they are not Nazis. You'll need more than some Jewish boys and an Asian pornstar for that to have merit.

Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by fnovd on Thursday December 01, 2016 @11:50AM (#13080830)
The existence of trolls doesn't mean that neonazis can't exist. Your doubletalk isn't fooling anyone. The words and actions in Spencer's talk were beyond explicit. Wake up.
[dead]
Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by fnovd on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @01:54PM (#13073526)
There is no factual basis for anything you wrote.
Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by MK999 on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @04:49PM (#13075038)
Yes everything you say is 'fact' and 'science'. Try a bit harder.
Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by sctb on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @04:52PM (#13075054)
We don't call other users “purposefully ignorant” or patronize them like this on HN. Please comment civilly and substantively or not at all.
Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by throwanem on Tuesday November 29, 2016 @11:02PM (#13068395)
Who the hell is Richard Spencer? I had never heard of him until a couple weeks ago. No one I know who claims the label "alt-right" had heard of him until a couple of weeks ago. No one anywhere had heard of him until the media dug him out from under his rock and started shooting arrows into the big bull's eye he helpfully painted on his idiot forehead for them. Were I conspiratorially minded, I'd imagine he might be a false-flag plant. But I'm old enough to know better.

The people I know who claim "alt-right" are not. They're young and full of piss and vinegar. They're also largely quite intelligent and not less well supplied with humanity than anyone else their age. They were quite receptive to the idea that nothing in the world is simple, and that demonizing any group of people en masse is a cheap, lazy, stupid shortcut past a lot of hard thought and the careful application of empathy toward the acknowledgement that compromise and negotiation are necessary toward any modus vivendi that's satisfactory to everyone, or as nearly so as can be managed in the imperfect world we inhabit.

I've been at this for a year now, more or less. It's been slow, difficult, complex, and anything but heroic, as teaching always is. But I'd capitalized on a couple of early successes, favorably impressing some of those among this group who are themselves generally looked up to by most others, and I was having a real effect. I had them thinking, or starting to - critically analyzing the contradictions between the left's claims and its behavior, and distinguishing the desirability of a lot of progressive goals from the counterproductive ways in which the modern progressive movement operates. I had them getting toward ready to start using the brains and the hearts God gave them to work toward a genuinely better world - for everyone - rather than the mirage of the progressive millennium whose pursuit has brought us to the pretty pass whereat we stand.

Of course, that was before the whole godforsaken world started calling them Nazis, sight unseen. How the hell am I supposed to compete with that? They're good kids, but they're kids. If you think it's easy, over a purely textual medium, to outdo "fuck you, you're not my dad", then by all means I invite you to try. And if you want to write them off, fine. That's easy and it's comfortable and it feels good. I get that. I don't even blame you, although I'd like to, because that would be easy too. But I am going to tell you you're making a mistake.

Not that it matters, at this point. In the last few weeks, I've seen my influence go from considerable to just about none. They aren't listening to me any more, because there's nothing in the world as exciting as to fight against injustice - which is exactly how they see it, and considering the way I'm seeing them slandered I don't even think they're wrong. Certainly one bookish old homosexual who counsels analysis and empathy over rash action can't live up to that! So they're going to go their way, and you are going to go yours, and I guess I've wasted a year's worth of the hard work with which the actual left, for whom I hold no love, can't be bothered. Perhaps I should have done better, but for the life of me I can't see how. There's only so much shit you can expect people to eat, and the left long ago passed that mark with those whom it makes its enemies. Little wonder they're starting to sick it up now, and we all have to live with the mess.

(And I see the post's been flagged, which means even the time I've spent writing this comment was wasted, because no one will see it. So it goes. May God and history judge us all more kindly than we deserve.)

Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by fnovd on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @02:01PM (#13073590)
You clearly did not watch the video. I don't care what your cohort of "alt-right" kids are up to or what outmoded lessons you vainly try to impress upon them. There are real, living, breathing, human beings who now feel empowered to throw out the Nazi salute, single out Jews and Muslims, and claim that America was created by and for white europeans. This isn't some false-flag rabble-rousing propaganda. This is a danger to the foundation of our society. Ignore it at your (and my) peril.
Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by leephillips on Tuesday November 29, 2016 @10:01PM (#13068129)
What falsehoods are you referring to? I'm not that familiar with what's going on on Reddit; but alt-right is in fact just a stupid name for neo-Nazi (as recently codified in the AP style guide).
Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by sanswork on Tuesday November 29, 2016 @10:01PM (#13068133)
The idea that the other side has a valid opinion just because they won is stupid. A lot of believes don't deserve any respect at all. The constant posts of "You lost because you didn't listen" are silly. The left lost because Donald lied about important things to a lot of people who are desperate for his lies to be true. The only way he holds support is by continuing to lie and blame it on others once he takes power.
Re:Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart by internaut on Tuesday November 29, 2016 @10:27PM (#13068262)
I'll stick my neck out and tell you I'm a quasi-neoreactionary, which more or less is to the alt-right what a Marxist is to communism. FWIW I'm not a white supremacist (or nationalist) and many NRX and alt-righters are Jews (including the inventor of neoreaction).

Actually read some of the material and see if 'it checks out' that we're all nazis. Scott Alexander has a essay called 'Reactionary Philosophy in a Planet sized nutshell' which is a good synopsis.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-...

Scott is definitely not a reactionary of any kind, so this is a neutral take.

Otherwise we can just call each other names and strawman each other all day.

Please don't come out with "I don't need no... or somebody on the internet said...". That is just lazy. I don't imagine all socialists subscribe to SJWism, since a lot of them are vehemently against it. Same goes here.