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Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by pvinis on Friday November 25, 2016 @04:51AM (#13035500)
Do you use brew? Have you contributed code to it? Have you installed something using brew, before updating brew for a while?

For me, my answers are yes no yes. A while ago, you did that, and you get an old version of the thing you just installed. With analytics, they saw that many people forget to update before installing after a while, so they added an update step in that case.

I call that progress, no matter how small. I didn't change that and to you didn't change that. The brew devs changed that. Maybe they would have changed it anyway later.. Who knows. But the fact that brew because a tiny tiny bit better because of analytics, in part from me, makes me a happier user. Now I don't need to remember to update before installing.

Of course it's not the best way to "contribute", but it's something. Definitely better than "contributing" your data to companies, like you said.

Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by majewsky on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:01AM (#13035546)
I can totally see the benefits of telemetry. But it would be way less phishy if it were opt-in, or at least opt-out with a very visible information message.
Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by CJefferson on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:49AM (#13035789)
The problem with this is, do you want every program you ever use, to start prompting you with a series of questions about various opt-in / opt-out questions? I get annoyed enough that gnu parallel keeps asking me about citing it, and that's one program.

    Bash would like to record analyitics. y/n/more information
    > y
    > ls *.c
    ls would like to record information about how you use it.
    y/n/more information.
    > y
    file1.c file2.c file3.c
    > grep 'string' *.c
    grep would like to record some information about your
    usage. y/n/more information.
    > y
    file1.c:8: string
    > vim file1.c
    vim would like to record information usage, to help
    improve vim in future. y/n/more information.
    > y
    The 'C' package in vim would like to ...
Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by Nursie on Friday November 25, 2016 @06:49AM (#13036041)
No, I want every program I ever use not to leak data about me all over the internet.

I'm amazed we're even having this discussion

Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by TeMPOraL on Friday November 25, 2016 @11:38AM (#13037871)
If I saw something like that, I'd format my drive and install another OS.

The very idea of your shell or file listing program sending analytics to the mothership is ridiculous. They shouldn't be even talking to a network directly. They have a set of well-defined tasks, and spying on you is not one of them.

Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by tunap on Friday November 25, 2016 @11:38AM (#13037875)
"The problem with this is, do you want every program you ever use, to start prompting you with a series of questions about various opt-in / opt-out questions?"

Simple answer, Yes.

It would lead to conversations about the elephant in the room. It also alleviates the assumption I trust all providers(comprehend the EULA/ToS) and puts their actions under scrutiny. If more people realized what data is collected and by whom for whom they could make an informed, cost/benefit choice. Other useful results are, what is the applicability of that data to the project, what characteristics define the 'Trusted Partners' that data is shared with and, possibly, inject some restraint into the collectors' decisions of what to collect.

edit: removed unintended paste fragment

Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by sangnoir on Friday November 25, 2016 @11:03AM (#13037605)
Lol, reminds me of what macOS did[1] to me after a recent upgrade:

  $ git pull

  (long wait)

  ^c

  $ git pull

  (got distracted and had to leave keyboard for a bit)

  Can't execute program until you accept xcode license
I couldn't believe it.

1. paraphrasing the words

Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by codedokode on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:57AM (#13035821)
Opt-in can be implemented other way without questions. For example, user could set an environment variable or type a command.
Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by CJefferson on Friday November 25, 2016 @06:36AM (#13035975)
Then we hit the problem that if we don't push that request at users, probably a tiny fraction will turn it on.

Worse, that fraction will be the statistically unusual people who bother reading and finding such options, meaning we can't derive any statistically useful results about the user base from them!

Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by TeMPOraL on Friday November 25, 2016 @11:35AM (#13037852)
Frankly, that's your problem. I don't see even a true desire to make the software better as a legitimate reason to exfiltrate data from people without asking.
Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by codedokode on Friday November 25, 2016 @07:01AM (#13036096)
Maybe you should ask them better. For example you could ask for help on the home page of your project or in the beginning of a tutorial. Or maybe they do not want to paticipate. Is it right to ignore this and turn analytics on by default?
Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by lewiseason on Friday November 25, 2016 @08:23AM (#13036527)
The Debian installer gets this right: it prompts you during the install whether it can collect information about installed packages for popcon[1]

[1] http://popcon.debian.org/

Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by majewsky on Saturday November 26, 2016 @08:01AM (#13043285)
I never understood why popcon is necessary. Couldn't you achieve about the same result by just counting downloads on the package mirrors?
Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by smonff on Friday November 25, 2016 @06:13AM (#13035885)
Oh, no!
Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by codedokode on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:27AM (#13035674)
Opt-out is what commecrial companies do because they do not respect their users' privacy. Free open source software should do the opposite.

By the way I think that browser history should be disabled by default too.

Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by TeMPOraL on Friday November 25, 2016 @11:40AM (#13037892)
Browser history is useful to user (but maybe the access to it could be restricted by means of authentication). I'm fine with off-line browser history that's accessible only to the user (and not JS running on a website). But sending any of it over the wire should definitely be opt-in.
Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by codedokode on Friday November 25, 2016 @12:24PM (#13038268)
An unexperienced user might not know that the history is recorded and later can be accidently seen for example by other member of the family. A good software would not allow that.

I remember some IM app for linux had history turned off by default. I was really surprised then.

Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by hyperbovine on Friday November 25, 2016 @07:07AM (#13036126)
Come now, a bajillion other software projects have "figured out" that people forget to update everything, always, without resorting to this sort of behavior. There's even a whole library, Sparkle, the exists just to solve this problem. Your nonexample of the necessity of analytics merely serves to reinforce the point you are trying to rebut.
Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by _b8r0 on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:02AM (#13035553)
Why do they need to use Google Analytics and hand information over to a third party instead of using something hosted?

I get that there may be money involved, but presumably self-hosting also gives them more of the information to build out what they need.

Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by emartinelli on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:14AM (#13035609)
In another comment in this thread by @mikemcquaid (Homebrew lead maintainer):

> (...)and have been trying to find people who will provide us with non-Google hosting but: we're chronically understaffed and underfunded[1]

[1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13035438

Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by karmacoda on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:47AM (#13035776)
What are the estimated costs for (something like) this?
Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by pvinis on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:09AM (#13035587)
I agree completely with you and majewsky below.
Re:Brew commands send data to Google Analytics by Chris2048 on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:57AM (#13035818)
The issue here is not contribution, but forced/unnanounced contribution. Would it be ok if I steal from your wallet to contribute to Homebrew?