News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by JustSomeNobody on Sunday November 13, 2016 @07:04AM (#12942948)
Your know there are HN readers who write this crap. I wonder if they'll chime in on why they do.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by TeMPOraL on Sunday November 13, 2016 @07:41AM (#12943064)

  So the other day I met the guy who makes all that crap on-line
  I told him you can have my cash
  But first you know I've got to ask
  What made you want to live this kind of life?

  He said there ain't no rest for the wicked, money don't grow on trees
  I got bills to pay, I got mouths to feed; ain't nothing in this world for free
  I know I can't slow down
  I can't hold back though you know I wish I could
  Oh no there ain't no rest for the wicked
  Until we close the shop for good...
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by Gracana on Sunday November 13, 2016 @08:44AM (#12943267)
Formatting text this way makes it hard to read on mobile and in text browsers. I couldn't even reply just now, my text wouldn't show up as I typed it, I had to click "edit" so I could view and edit my post by itself.

[edit] dang, can something be done about this? Flagging for format? Maybe a little drastic, but try reading HN in elinks, you'll see that a long line breaks the whole page. How about line wrap? Desktop users would be unaffected, and it would be a better compromise for mobile.

Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by ben0x539 on Sunday November 13, 2016 @10:15AM (#12943683)
Flagging a post for the shortcomings of the commenting platform seems a bit harsh.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by jrockway on Sunday November 13, 2016 @05:24PM (#12946038)
I definitely downvote Reddit comments that are all <h1> text.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by peeja on Sunday November 13, 2016 @09:54AM (#12943539)
Wouldn't it be easier to just fix the CSS?
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by sesqu on Sunday November 13, 2016 @10:47AM (#12943859)
No, since the text used code semantics. A better solution would be to introduce a few more formatting options, such as attributed and unattributed quote blocks.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by odbol_ on Sunday November 13, 2016 @05:02PM (#12945934)
I've already fixed the CSS for hacker news several times; they always reject my suggestions though. It's like they want to keep it shitty
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by CamperBob2 on Sunday November 13, 2016 @04:24PM (#12945756)
Or get a browser that works?
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by Gracana on Sunday November 13, 2016 @08:04PM (#12946768)
The web would be a lot more accessible if so many designers didn't think like you.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by Roboprog on Sunday November 13, 2016 @01:25PM (#12944744)
HN needs (maybe has???) markup to break lines without double spacing as distinct paragraphs.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by kartD on Sunday November 13, 2016 @11:49AM (#12944189)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_DFrVkfy2Os

Cage the elephant- ain't no rest for the wicked

In case anyone is wondering

Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by DCoder on Sunday November 13, 2016 @10:47AM (#12943857)
We never lost control

You're face to face

With the man who sold the world

Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by Roboprog on Sunday November 13, 2016 @01:26PM (#12944749)
Ha ha, only serious, as they say.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by static_noise on Sunday November 13, 2016 @07:27AM (#12943013)
While I can't speak from first hand experience, I have an open ear sometimes.

There are these developers who just made an awesome webapp or something. It's really great but there is a problem. Noone knows about it. But they have a solution for that problem. They buy some "promotion". It's articles in newsletters or outright spam directed at their target audience. I cannot tell you exactly who their target audience is but I can tell you who it is not. It's not you, me or most readers on hackernews. It's less tech savyy people with more decision power. Old people. Their site is made for old people. And they don't care about you and me or any other passer-by who won't pay a dime. They care about conversion rates and that is what they monitor all day long.

It's a bit like in those scam-emails. They are so obvious that anybody with half a brain will click delete. But those who do reply, oh boy, they are so ready to be milked off by that nigerian prince.

Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by bootload on Sunday November 13, 2016 @02:16PM (#12945033)
"There are these developers who just made an awesome web app or something. It's really great but there is a problem. Noone knows about it. But they have a solution for that problem. They buy some 'promotion'."

Buying recognition is nothing new in tech.

"Our startup spent its entire marketing budget on PR: at a time when we were assembling our own computers to save money, we were paying a PR firm $16,000 a month. And they were worth it."

Read this article, "The Submarine" ~ http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html

Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by ziszis on Sunday November 13, 2016 @10:21AM (#12943719)
Why they do it? Easy. You are not the customer, the advertiser is. So as long as it is tolerable for a sufficient % of the audience, it is worth it.

Case in point, circumventing ad blockers. Audience explicitly doesn't want the ad experience, but Facebook wants to make more $. Facebook just announced a record quarter on desktop advertising fueled by successfully circumventing ad blockers.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/02/add-cash-plus/

Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by noir_lord on Sunday November 13, 2016 @11:12AM (#12943985)
I wonder which adblockers they are successfully circumventing because with Ublock Origin out the box I've not seen any adverts for I forget how long.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by ziszis on Sunday November 13, 2016 @11:21AM (#12944024)
AdBlock has commented on this and seems that there have been intermittent periods of no blocking: https://adblockplus.org/blog/ping-pong-with-facebook

"While Facebook appears to have had the last word for now, this, friends, is a long game. That being said, a few other ad blockers have apparently found workarounds to Facebook’s latest circumvention."

Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by noir_lord on Sunday November 13, 2016 @11:51AM (#12944193)
That makes sense then.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by t64wdrk on Sunday November 13, 2016 @08:52AM (#12943304)
At my last job at a web agency, I was told to make a newsletter popup that opened on first page load. I said to my project manager (he was a web developer before) that it was bad design and everyone finds it annoying. He said that the client wanted it, and I should just do it.

I asked him, what if the client wanted a pink unicorn gif in the corner, should we just do that as well? Without telling the client that it doesn't fit the site? He said yes...

Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by ssharp on Sunday November 13, 2016 @09:01AM (#12943338)
I wouldn't speak so definitivly regarding something you don't know for sure. Everyone doesn't find them annoying enough to make them ineffective.

The website probably won't cry over your bounce if it means they'll collect an email optin from someone else.

Auto play video is bad for reasons beyond a pop in modal and reasons beyond annoying video ads.

Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by matt_morgan on Sunday November 13, 2016 @09:47AM (#12943512)
Don't tell them yes or tell them no. Test, monitor, and promote the path that leads to the best success rates, acknowledging that user growth may drive success in the longer term. Take the long view, basically.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by mcbits on Sunday November 13, 2016 @10:48AM (#12943860)
Individual sites can't measure how much their combined spam costs them due to the ever more aggressive use of ad blockers. In the short term, a newsletter popup probably does increase revenue, but acquiring new users in the future will be more expensive as a result because the cheap and simple ads will fail to reach most of the market. Unfortunately, nobody has incentive to stop, as they'll just give up the short-term revenue and still suffer the future consquences from all of the other bad actors.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by mgkimsal on Sunday November 13, 2016 @11:13AM (#12943989)
need also to look beyond a month or quarter.

my wife has quit going to several sites altogether, and in other cases can not buy on a website, because of pop-up stuff.

So... if they're measuring for "email signups" then - w00t! - sweet! - numbers are so high! What about actual sales? Or repeat sales? Lifetime value of a customer?

Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by matt_morgan on Sunday November 13, 2016 @09:01PM (#12947004)
I don't think I was very clear but yes, that's what I meant. You can't just look at the short-term gains of the promotion; if it suppresses repeat visits then that's a cost. And yes, it's hard to do, and is an art as much as a science.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by userbinator on Sunday November 13, 2016 @10:18AM (#12943699)
He said that the client wanted it, and I should just do it.

Ask him to ask the client if that's the behaviour the client would find annoying if every other site also did that.

Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by nikanj on Sunday November 13, 2016 @07:15AM (#12942976)
Mortgage payments
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by sotojuan on Sunday November 13, 2016 @08:17AM (#12943166)
Because their PM/CEO tells them to do and it's their job? Most developers have little say in this.
Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by hota_mazi on Sunday November 13, 2016 @10:57AM (#12943906)
Pretty sure the answer is: "pay check".

Not everybody gets to choose their job.

Re:Dear Google, Apple, Mozilla, and MS: Please End Auto-Play... by mahyarm on Sunday November 13, 2016 @03:45PM (#12945561)
They don't live in a tech center and the local spam shop / crappy web property is one of the few local places who are hiring.