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Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by gragas on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @10:54AM (#12911082)
I'll say this again:

Does this not prove that "diverse" liberalism isn't so diverse after all? Shouldn't a diverse group of people have seen this coming?

Or is liberalism actually systematically excluding people by labelling them as "racist" and "sexist", when in fact they're just fiscal and social conservatives?

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by mhurron on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @10:58AM (#12911124)
What does any of this mean?

Trump is labeled racist, sexist and misogynistic because of his words and actions. As are most people.

And lots of people saw a Trump presidency as a possibility, like, everyone paying attention to the fact that there was a Republican presidential runner, and that person was Trump.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by panzagl on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:16AM (#12911343)
He means that when rural white voters said that they think they're getting the short end of the stick when it comes to globalism, the Democrats blew them off as racists/ignorant/whatever. If the Democrat party was truly diverse this opinion would have been respected enough that it wouldn't be a surprise.

I think Sanders did a much better job of reaching that demographic, so I'd argue it was represented, but the Democrat party decided other priorities were more important by selecting Clinton.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by gragas on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:23AM (#12911432)
This is exactly what I mean. Clinton really lost a lot of support by only going after social issues that, for all intents and purposes, have already been solved. Sure, there are a lot of racist people who voted for Trump! But there is ample law and policy in place to protect the rights of minorities and LGBT.

Trump went after issues that actually matter. Be careful, I'm not saying LGBT rights and racism don't matter, I'm just saying they aren't really the centerfold of America anymore.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by snowwrestler on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:30AM (#12911550)
> But there is ample law and policy in place to protect the rights of minorities and LGBT.

The degree to which people believe this is striking. The reality is that these protections are very recent developments and are today easily reversed, particularly by an administration that cares less than usual about the details of how the federal government is run.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by panzagl on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @12:27PM (#12912345)
How many actual federal legal protections exist now? To me it seems like there hasn't been much change in federal law, some at state levels, but in general it's that people are more accepting because they think Cam on Modern Family is funny.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by snowwrestler on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @01:36PM (#12913200)
Quite a lot of rests on the courts. The Supreme Court has a set of case law related to minority rights, which it could reverse--as it did with the Voting Rights Act.

The national legalization of gay marriage happened via the Supreme Court just last year. There is no reason at all it could not be reversed under a new court.

A lot more rests in Department of Justice policy. Look at what Justice has been doing to investigate and clean up racial bias in municipal police forces recently. They have consent decrees with Seattle, Cleveland, and others to try to change the way they do policing.

A new administration could easily abandon every one of those agreements, and the goal of removing racial bias from policing generally. It might even be likely--senior people in the Trump campaign have praised racial profiling as an effective and useful police tactic.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by panzagl on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @01:53PM (#12913362)
So it sounds like things haven't really been progressing through legislation as much as through judicial and executive action and maybe those things aren't as permanent as hoped?
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by snowwrestler on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @04:28PM (#12914843)
Correct.

Edit to add: in general, social progress must be continuously defended. Nothing is every "done" in a democracy.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by BobCat on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @04:19PM (#12914776)
>The national legalization of gay marriage happened via the Supreme Court just last year. There is no reason at all it could not be reversed under a new court.

Yes, there is; it's "stare decisis". Even Dred Scott has not been reversed because of it.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by fuqted on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:23AM (#12911430)
Hillary has been recorded to be racist herself. She also went from being pro civil union, no pro gay marriage to pro gay marriage - after the fact. Beyond that seems very weird. The lying about 'landing under sniper fire', her weird convulsion-like episodes and the fact that people are repeatedly fired from their jobs for talking about it.

Political donations are not supposed to be tax deductible and yet the Clinton Foundation carries on existence as a 501c3; double dipping so that a majority of her income as one of the most wealthy politicians comes in tax deductible while she pays not taxes on it.

In light of the blatant collusion and conflicts of interest released in her emails she should've been barred from running in the first place.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by NumberCruncher on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:16AM (#12911342)
>> Trump is labeled racist, sexist and misogynistic because of his words and actions. As are most people.

The difference is that he does not pretend to be non-racist, non-sexist and not-misogynistic. A lot of people do.

[edit] I am not american, but somehow I can understand that he won the election. He is a honest hustler among a bunch of good liars. He won't stab you in the back. Maybe in the chest. But you will see it coming.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by gragas on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @10:59AM (#12911145)
I'd argue he's none of those things.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by mhurron on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:03AM (#12911198)
I would like to see you try.

And I mean that with no sarcasm. I would genuinely like to see you make the case that he is not racist, sexist and/or misogynistic.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by venomsnake on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @12:18PM (#12912225)
I'll bite. The majority of insults Trump hurled were targeted at individuals. Insulting someone even if race/sex/gender is included is not by itself racist, misogynistic or whatever. It is just hitting where you know it will hurt the most - which is good tactic IMO.

And he was careful never to insult big parts of the electorate - it was usually the left that generalized.

All of his big gaffes were either towards non citizens or specific citizens. He never had his basket of deplorables moment.

It was between him and Megyn Kelly, the latino judge, the khans.

And we get to the "grab them by the pussy" - and we end in the messy world of human courtship ... where we are all sexist and objectifying the objects of our desire. Both sexes included.

Of course the assaults are assaults ... and I won't defend them. Somehow they disappeared from the media in the last few days though.

Trump is a dirty fighter. But I think that the majority of his sexism, racism or wherever is mostly opportunistic strikes where he sees weakness.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by TheGirondin on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @02:29PM (#12913741)
And I mean that with no sarcasm. I would genuinely like to see you make the case that you are not racist, sexist and/or misogynistic.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by c0nducktr on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:04AM (#12911212)
Let's here it then.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by chris_wot on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:00AM (#12911167)
There's plenty of evidence to the contrary.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by mc32 on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:03AM (#12911203)
It's a complex issue. Anecdotally some Obama voters broke for Trump, so it's hard to see them being 'racist'. But people like to discount the hurt in the working class and are happy to label them racist --just because this time they didn't agree with you.

My thoughts on some of it is that while the white working class (as well as the black working class) are happy to see America help others out, internationally, domestically; they are not happy to see America help others out but at the same time ignore them and belittle them. That can be in trade deals, acquiescing to illegal immigrants, talking down to them, etc. There are likely a sprinkling of racists on the Trump side, but I dare say, there is the same likelihood of reverse racists on the Clinton side ['white people are the devil'].

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by robin_reala on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:12AM (#12911290)
I’d love to see a citation of the ‘same likelihood’.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by TulliusCicero on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @10:56AM (#12911108)
> Does this not prove that "diverse" liberalism isn't so diverse after all? Shouldn't a diverse group of people have seen this coming?

Even people on the GOP side seemed to accept that Trump was going to lose, so I'd say 'no'. Sometimes the polls are wrong, sometimes you just get surprising results.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by jules on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:01AM (#12911174)
It didn't surprise me. You have to look through the reality distortion field of the media and established politicians, because that only represents the views of a tiny and intellectually very non-diverse group of people. Consider the mismatch between what the media was reporting, and the undeniable fact that Trump's rallies attracted a far greater number of people than Clinton's. You also can't rely on the polls when you have a candidate whose voters are underrepresented in those polls because they've never voted before. Many polls sampled people as if this was Obama instead of Clinton. It's was clear that the number previous non-voters who would actually go out to vote for Clinton would be lower than for Obama, whereas from Trump it's the opposite.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by TulliusCicero on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @12:11PM (#12912123)
> Consider the mismatch between what the media was reporting, and the undeniable fact that Trump's rallies attracted a far greater number of people than Clinton's.

By itself that doesn't mean anything. Sanders got way bigger rallies than Clinton too and still lost.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by mc32 on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:05AM (#12911218)
Interestingly the Trump campaign was complaining about those polls and used that as a basis for their "rigged" claims. So I'd be curious how they produced their numbers internally that showed them ahead in tossup states.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by tdb7893 on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:00AM (#12911150)
I don't mean this disrespectfully but I don't really understand your argument. It looks like there is a decent chance Clinton will win the popular vote and it seems like more a failure of statistics rather than diversity to not have been able to see her loss in a couple key states in the polls.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by TheGirondin on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @02:28PM (#12913720)
Rural or blue collar Americans only have one place in America where they are represented on the national level: the ballot box.

All of the shocked media people and here on HN live in a bubble and have no idea what it's like to live in a working class community.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by qntty on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @10:56AM (#12911103)
Diversity means including people in out-groups at the risk of alienating people in the in-group
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by yomly on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:03AM (#12911199)
But one of the main "in-groups" of the Trump supporter base were the working class. In its current form "diversity" is nothing more than a weapon for classism.

We are completely fine understanding root causes and bias which may underlie racial or gender based observations, but conveniently turn a blind eye to well-studied drivers for phenomena like nativism.

A lot of the current form of diversity against the disenfranchised "in-group" amounts to "you're f'd for being poor and FU again for being unhappy about being poor".

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by qntty on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:14AM (#12911309)
It's acceptable (if short-sighted) to exclude people for being racist. It's not acceptable to exclude people for being poor and uneducated. The Democrats messed up by ignoring the pain of poor people, not by being insufficiently tolerant of racism.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by 794CD01 on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:21AM (#12911404)
Those principles might make sense in isolation, but we know that being poor and uneducated leads to being racist.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by qntty on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:31AM (#12911560)
The fact that Sanders was predicted to do significantly better than Clinton against Trump means that there's plenty of votes to be won by listening to poor people without being racist.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by TheGirondin on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @02:31PM (#12913764)
And right now working class, rural, and blue-collar Americans are in the left-wing out-group.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by lordCarbonFiber on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:01AM (#12911180)
What does "socially conservative" mean in 2016 if not racist/sexist/homophobic? One of Trump's slogans was "Take America back"; that's not particularly subtle as to from who.

The line gets a bit muddier on the fiscal side. If you're all for cutting programs that disproportionately support the poor and the poor happen to be disproportionately minority is there a racial component? That's worth being aware of.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by dvdcxn on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @12:03PM (#12912001)
> "Take America back"; that's not particularly subtle as to from who.

Depends on the context really. If that was Sander's slogan, you'd immediately assume whom you'd be taking it back was the bankers & corporation.

It's one of those generic slogan that reflects the views of the beholder. Some will assume it means from the immigrants, others the bureaucrats. It's definitely smarter than the damp squibs that Clinton came up with.

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by vlunkr on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:17AM (#12911356)
Pro-life, opposed to drug legalization, 2nd amendment rights, to name a few. Sorry, but if that's what you think of all conservatives you have as much prejudice as you think they do.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by lordCarbonFiber on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:40AM (#12911708)
Pro-life is pretty tightly coupled to the idea women don't have the right to manage their reproductive health-> not very equalist[0]. The drug war was started by Nixon inorder to better control the black and hippie population, so not getting any points there[1].

You're left with gun rights which becomes a question of degree. It's thankfully largely divorced from the issues of sex and race, but pretty tightly coupled to regional culture more than anything else.

The fact that Trump won on the backs of uneducated white men certainly says a lot.

[0] http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/how-i-l...

[1] http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richa...

Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by dllthomas on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @01:49PM (#12913333)
I definitely don't think of guns as a social issue... is that where it is usually classified? Granted that it doesn't fit "economic" perfectly either.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by CalChris on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @10:56AM (#12911102)
Don't blame your election of a demagogue on liberals. Take responsibility for that yourself. Own it.
Re:Donald Trump Is Elected President by gragas on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @11:04AM (#12911204)
Sure! I can proudly say I voted for Donald J Trump.