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Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by barsonme on Thursday November 03, 2016 @05:42PM (#12868256)
> Not sure why some people consider the Democratic party "extreme". They most definitely seem like a moderate party. The Republican party, well, they're just incredibly laser focused on cutting taxes on the rich.

And Republicans would say the opposite. This is why we never get anywhere.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by afterburner on Thursday November 03, 2016 @05:47PM (#12868301)
I don't think we can so easily simply paint both parties as mirror images of each other. The Republican party seems obviously broken.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by gremlinsinc on Thursday November 03, 2016 @06:04PM (#12868416)
As an EX democrat, I'd say the Democrat party is broken too, the amount of election fraud, and corruption in the party makes it look like the Mafia. The whole system is broken and we need to pass the anti-corruption bill asap, if we're to have a chance to take back our country from wall street.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhe286ky-9A

EDIT: I say ex loosely.. I voted mostly dem. down the line, but wrote in Bernie Sanders, I'm not fond of Jill Stein something about her doesn't seem right. But I couldn't in good conscience do a protest vote for Trump, and I can never support Clinton, the most corrupt politician of the past 40 years.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by komali2 on Thursday November 03, 2016 @06:33PM (#12868658)
I voted for Jill Stein though she is (recently, apparently) anti-nuclear energy, and before that said some silly things about vaccinations and WiFi.

There is no perfect candidate other than perhaps yourself. When it comes to third party, you can safely consider your vote a vote for the party values themselves, rather than the candidate in particular. A vote for Jill Stein is really a vote for the major political parties to work on more green legislation.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by gremlinsinc on Thursday November 03, 2016 @10:19PM (#12869868)
I feel that Jill's not that intelligent she's lacking in a lot of areas. Bernie is just brilliant all around. I figured I'll at least pick someone that I can feel confident about supporting, in the end I kind of hope Trump gets it for no other reason than to show the DNC they picked the wrong duck.

I actually led the charge on my site PivotAmerica.com to encourage people to go green/vote for Jill, but I don't really think it's possible to break up the two party monopolies anytime soon, and her opinions on vaccines, and nuclear energy are disconcerting.

A nuclear power plant is NOT the same thing as a weapon of mass destruction. And you can't just print money like she wants to do for the education plan - Bernie's plan of raising taxes on speculation makes way more sense. But I did throw my vote to down-candidate dems. But Hillary ran the shadiest campaign I've ever seen, and is one of the most corrupt people in the world. I'd say she's worst than Bush / Cheney imho, or at least not far removed in policy. (THey both supported the Iraq war after all).

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by notoothpaste on Thursday November 03, 2016 @06:58PM (#12868842)
From Trump's plan for his first 100 days in office (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/trump-pledges-to...):

>First: I am going to institute a 5-year ban on all executive branch officials lobbying the government after they leave government service.

>Second: I am going to ask Congress to institute its own 5-year ban on lobbying by former members of Congress and their staffs.

>Third: I am going to expand the definition of lobbyist so we close all the loopholes that former government officials use by labeling themselves consultants and advisors when we all know they are lobbyists.

>Fourth: I am going to issue a lifetime ban against senior executive branch officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government.

>Fifth: I am going to ask Congress to pass a campaign finance reform that prevents registered foreign lobbyists from raising money in American elections.

>There is another major announcement I am going to make today as part of our pledge to drain the swamp in Washington. If I am elected President, I will push for a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress.

>Decades of failure in Washington, and decades of special interest dealing, must come to an end. We have to break the cycle of corruption, and we have to give new voices a chance to go into government service. The time for Congressional term limits has arrived.

If you wanted to actually do something about corruption in Washington instead of just talking about it, you should have voted Trump.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by untog on Thursday November 03, 2016 @07:00PM (#12868848)
Even the shallowest dive into Trump's business dealings would show you that he is no stranger to corruption.

I personally do not believe that he would enact a single one of those campaign pledges.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by krapp on Friday November 04, 2016 @09:27AM (#12872343)
He can't enact them. The presidency isn't a dictatorship.

I don't know why people keep acting like it is - Trump isn't going to ride into Washington on a white horse and pass a Constitutional amendment or fund a massive immigrant detainment and deportation program or convince Mexico to pay for a wall through sheer willpower.

At best, he'll try, and either have to compromise significantly to get anything passed at all, or else fail entirely.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by gremlinsinc on Thursday November 03, 2016 @10:20PM (#12869876)
I hope trump wins because he'll be out in 2020 and maybe we get a better Pres. sooner than later. But he won't get any of his promises passed, they won't even make it to the congress floor. He'll be a lame duck president, and nothing more. I don't even see him wanting to run for re-election, as I feel this is a stunt to get more publicity for his reality TV empire.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by untog on Thursday November 03, 2016 @10:27PM (#12869913)
I've heard that argument before, and it kind of amuses me. It's as if to say, yes, Hillary is awful, but if she's elected she'll probably do a good enough job that she will win re-election in four years time.

Those two things don't seem to go together well to me.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by mcv on Friday November 04, 2016 @05:10AM (#12871214)
While reducing the influence of lobbyists is a laudable goal, it's hard to imagine how anyone could honestly see Trump as a fighter against corruption. His own business has been far too riddled with corruption and scams.
[dead]
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by mcv on Friday November 04, 2016 @09:12AM (#12872248)
No those are indeed not the same things, but they're also completely irrelevant to anything resembling reality.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by barsonme on Thursday November 03, 2016 @05:50PM (#12868329)
To _you_ the GOP seems broken. To millions of other people the GOP is fine. To millions of others the Democratic party is broken.

If you can't recognize faults in both _you_ are the problem. Nothing in politics--especially subjective issues like this--are black and white.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by imgabe on Thursday November 03, 2016 @06:46PM (#12868761)
I'm not going to dispute that both parties have their problems, but the GOP's leadership is actively at odds with the people they purport to represent. That seems pretty broken.

The Democrats have, for the most part, at least rallied behind their candidate.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by CalChris on Thursday November 03, 2016 @06:36PM (#12868686)
This is equivocation which will allow you to dismiss anything.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by barsonme on Thursday November 03, 2016 @07:27PM (#12869042)
I'm not sure how you can some to an objective conclusion on such a subjective issue.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by mcv on Friday November 04, 2016 @05:13AM (#12871222)
Both parties have plenty of faults, but lately the Republicans have refused to even do their job in governing the US, and have promised to undermine the Supreme Court with their misguided power games.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by afterburner on Thursday November 03, 2016 @08:02PM (#12869283)
It seems like it's you who have painted me in black and white. Who says I can't recognize flaws in the democrats? But it seems obvious that the flaws in the Republican party are much, much worse.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by baddox on Thursday November 03, 2016 @05:50PM (#12868328)
Again, you must recognize that the other side will and does say the exact same thing.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by afterburner on Thursday November 03, 2016 @08:03PM (#12869288)
That doesn't make them right, or me wrong.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by dba7dba on Thursday November 03, 2016 @10:00PM (#12869800)
From what I heard so far, Hillary was helped/favored ovet Sanders in a very obvious but secret way by leaderahip of Democrat. Isn't that a sign of broken Dem?
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by mcv on Friday November 04, 2016 @07:43AM (#12871811)
That depends on your point of view. Clearly the party has a lot of control over who they nominate, unlike the Republicans, who lost complete control over their nomination process.

Perhaps parties shouldn't have such tight control over things; I certainly would have strongly preferred Sanders as the Democratic nominee. Still, it's a party. Technically it is up to the party to decide who they nominate. That they use primaries to make this decision is certainly nice and democratic of them, but it's not a legal requirement, and it wasn't always like that.

The thing that's really broken is the entire political system that only offers these two parties as realistic options. But the Republican party has also become really dysfunctional over the past decade or so, where representatives and senators basically refuse to do their job and work to undermine the country by their political gamesmanship.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by ng12 on Thursday November 03, 2016 @06:28PM (#12868600)
If you're referring to this election specifically I actually envy the Republicans. Trump was able to cut through the party and rally a huge base basically by himself. Even if he loses it's an amazing opportunity for the party to reinvent itself.

Meanwhile the Dems double-down on the status quo year after year.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by CalChris on Thursday November 03, 2016 @07:02PM (#12868863)
Obama was the status quo? Bill Clinton was the status quo? Carter was the status quo? JFK was the status quo?

How many times were Reagan and Nixon going to run before they got the nod? McCain? Romney? W's singular skill was being the son of a former President.

Yeah, Hillary is running for Obama's third term. But otherwise Dems don't double down year after year. That'd be the Republicans. Trump's bull in a china shop approach doesn't change this.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by ng12 on Thursday November 03, 2016 @07:21PM (#12869008)
> Hillary is running for Obama's third term

Yes. And I consider them both neocons as was the George W. administration. That's what I'm referring to as the status quo.

As a lifelong democrat I'm very excited to see what happens to the GOP in the next few years. I don't expect the DNC to change in a significant way.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by barsonme on Thursday November 03, 2016 @07:30PM (#12869062)
As a lifelong Republican I'm not. It's going to be a bitter fight as the GOP either decides to shed its alt-right folk or embrace them and the GOP is going to come out rough either way.

There's a definite divide between the moderate GOP and the new, hard right GOP that far surpasses the small, somewhat positive divide when the tea party movement came to be ca 2009.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by warlox on Thursday November 03, 2016 @08:52PM (#12869533)
You do realize that the alt-right, the KKK, and the Nazis stand for genocide, right?
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by ng12 on Thursday November 03, 2016 @09:33PM (#12869698)
I'm not entirely convinced that the alt-right isn't a boogeyman. Not sure what the KKK or the Nazis have to do with anything.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by afterburner on Thursday November 03, 2016 @09:50PM (#12869761)
Trump has courted the white supremacist vote.

In fact, he was just officially endorsed by the KKK's official newspaper... his whopping 2nd newspaper endorsement!

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by ng12 on Thursday November 03, 2016 @11:18PM (#12870096)
Not really interested in why the KKK supports Trump, very interested in why almost half of voters do.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by mcv on Friday November 04, 2016 @07:26AM (#12871728)
Why the KKK supports Trump is rather telling about what Trump stands for, as is the fact that he has retweeted numerous white supremacists. It's not exactly that it's a one-way street where he can't help that they vote for him; he likes them, courts, them, retweets them, and has never distanced himself from them.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by ng12 on Friday November 04, 2016 @10:41AM (#12872898)
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-election-day/kkk-paper...

His campaign immediately distanced themselves.

Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by mcv on Friday November 04, 2016 @05:59PM (#12876513)
Trump? Or his campaign? Some people in his campaign have a tendency of denying everything he says. If it's Trump, it would be a first. He tends to waffle around it and give non-answers, because he doesn't want to drop his allies, but doesn't want to be seen supporting either.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by afterburner on Thursday November 03, 2016 @11:35PM (#12870162)
They might be related...
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by warlox on Saturday November 05, 2016 @06:31PM (#12882288)
They are very real. Check out the Daily Stormer if you don't believe me.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by throwaway274739 on Friday November 04, 2016 @01:15AM (#12870540)
Drumpf is supported by David Duke, the KKK and legions of neo-Nazis.
Re:Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close? by ionised on Monday November 07, 2016 @07:01AM (#12890418)
To an outside observer (i.e myself) both thed Democrats and Republicans (moreso) might seem very right wing.