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Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by ghshephard on Saturday October 15, 2016 @09:11PM (#12716351)
Given my savings account pays 0.01%, and a 30 day CD from my bank pays .75%, and the average dividend yield of the S&P 500 ETFs (like blackrock's IVV) net-of-fees is 2%, is it all surprising that nobody uses Savings Accounts anymore? Seems like rational behavior to me.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by intopieces on Saturday October 15, 2016 @09:49PM (#12716427)
This response comes up every single time this statistic gets posted. I assure you that your condition is not typical for the 69% mentioned in the statistic quoted.

"The Fed asked respondents how they would pay for a $400 emergency. The answer: 47 percent of respondents said that either they would cover the expense by borrowing or selling something, or they would not be able to come up with the $400 at all. Four hundred dollars! Who knew?"

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secre...

1 in 3 Americans has $0 saved for Retirement, and 56% have less than $10,000

http://time.com/money/4258451/retirement-savings-survey/

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by gizmo686 on Sunday October 16, 2016 @12:18AM (#12716868)
I agree with the conclusion, but do not think you can get their just by looking at how people would pay for a $400 emergency.

For example, in my financial situation, I would borrow to cover an unexpected $400 expanse. However, that is because I have a prior agreement with my parents that they would loan me (at 0% interest) to cover unexpected expenses, so I have no reason to keep a surplus of money fully liquid when it could be earning better returns elsewhere.

My parents, for their part, base their savings on the assumption that they would cover unexpected expanses from their line of credit secured against their house. This, again, is not because they do not have the money to set aside for emergencies, but because they think that the opportunity cost of keeping the money liquid outweighs the cost of occasionally paying on credit. As it happens, they could pay for a $400 emergency out of pocket, but that is mostly because they are too rich to micromanage at the $400 dollar level.

With respect to retirement savings, I do not think that stat is as bad as it first appears (although I do think the typical American is underrepresented for retirement). The basic financial story is:

1) take on debt for big, lifetime purchases (education and a house).

2) Pay of debt

3) Accumulate wealth

4) Retire and live off of accumulated wealth

Given this, it is not unreasonable that young people would have no money set aside for retirement, because it might be more efficient to use that money to pay off debt.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by brianwawok on Sunday October 16, 2016 @08:32AM (#12718317)
I don't care what kind of plan B you have, having $500 or $1000 cash seems like common sense. What is the opportunity cost of $1000 not in the stock market... $50 a year?
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by rdm42116 on Sunday October 16, 2016 @10:40AM (#12718784)
Yes, that comment was ridiculously out of touch.

That's fantastic you have a safety net with your parents, with amazing credit, that can borrow at good rates, at any time.

What about the people paying double digit interest rates to get a crappy used car? People who can't borrow money because of no credit, without their parents to cover extreme interest rates?

It's great that some people have the luxury to somehow not have an emergency fund, but a huge portion of the population is unable to do that. The last thing they care about is return on investment in savings-they need money to get food next week.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by madengr on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:08PM (#12716485)
Thanks for that retirement savings link; been looking for that data.

Yeah, forget the saving account. Retirement is going to be the real issue. Lot of people going to be eating dog food in the future.

Pensions for anyone under 45 are pretty much non existent, with a few exceptions. Even if they are, the companies tend to screw with them. Our company just froze the salary for pension calculations (not that I have one), so somebody could work another 20 years and retire at a percentage of today's pay.

At least I get a crappy annuity and 401k matching. New hires now get neither.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by jwatte on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:23PM (#12716530)
You get at least something from social security, which every worker pays to sustain, and society then promises to keep going. (Worker/retiree ratio changes are going to be a problem.) Thus, retirement savings is not the top problem.

However, the truth is that a majority of Americans worry about how to pay food and rent every month. This is not because they are all irresponsible human beings, but because American society makes it really freaking terrible to be in the bottom half. Retirement is out of reach; saving for an emergency has to fight with rent has to fight with prescription medications has to fight with clothes for your kids.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by pcardh0 on Sunday October 16, 2016 @12:03AM (#12716823)
Millions of government workers have pensions. Most of them are quite generous.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by ghshephard on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:02PM (#12716463)
Fair enough - but, given the fascination a lot of people have with owning their home (which I do not), you would also have to include any positive equity (which can be leveraged in a number of ways) in their property in this scenario.

I guess the question I would have is "What is the 10th/25th/Median percentile of net-liquidity" and "What is the expected downstream third-party income from Social Security/Pensions/etc..." expected. That paints a fuller picture of people's financial stability, and also identifies how important Social Security is to their wellbeing.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by jwatte on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:25PM (#12716535)
Home owners are not in the bottom half.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by starik36 on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:19PM (#12716522)
What do they mean by "borrowing"? Is it actually borrowing money from friends and neighbors or is it using a credit card because it is convenient?
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by jwatte on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:24PM (#12716532)
It's both -- but not because it's "convenient" but because it's the only possible source. The minimum payment will then multiply the cost over many years.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by starik36 on Sunday October 16, 2016 @01:37AM (#12717147)
I hope that distinction was made during the survey. From reading the article, I didn't get that feeling.

If I had to pony up $400, I would definitely use a credit card because its what I have on me.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by gozur88 on Sunday October 16, 2016 @01:03AM (#12717057)
This just tells you there are a hell of a lot of stupid people out there. In no reality are 47% of Americans in the position of not being able to save $400 due to external circumstances.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by userbinator on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:13PM (#12716501)
On the other hand, I know a few Americans who have more than that in cash in their wallet, and although they are probably not average, they are not what I'd describe as wealthy either.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by hulahoof on Sunday October 16, 2016 @01:30AM (#12717137)
While I don't doubt this, the chance they are in the upper sector is pretty high especially with the wealth concentration being in the top few % (from my understanding).

I feel the descriptor of middle class has moved away from X% disposable income and that you are describing a 'traditional' middle class. I do not live in the US however and could be tainted by my personal experience in AUS.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by throwaway287391 on Saturday October 15, 2016 @09:56PM (#12716447)
Ally pays 1% interest for their free online savings accounts. I wouldn't be surprised if other online banks are offering even more; haven't checked in a while. (Oddly, looking at Ally's CD offerings, some of the shorter-term ones are <1%...wonder what value those could possibly offer vs. their savings account.)

Somewhat tangentially, it always surprises me that people continue to use checking/savings accounts from banks like Chase, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, etc. when they pay terrible interest rates, don't reimburse ATM fees, and sometimes actually charge you for debit cards and/or paper checks. If it's the thought of not having access to real brick & mortar banks that scares you, Schwab is a great option (though they pay much less interest than the top online ones).

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by brianwawok on Sunday October 16, 2016 @08:37AM (#12718335)
I have Ally and Chase.

Ally I put real savings in.

Chase I use when I sell something in Craigslist for $600 and need to deposit cash. I have no good way to get cash into Ally.

So Chase is just a convenience bank for me. Also used it for the time I needed a 25k cashier check to buy my house. Ally was going to need to pay a wire fee, vs transfer and cashier check was free with Chase.

Overall yes I hate Chase.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by throwaway287391 on Sunday October 16, 2016 @10:56AM (#12718851)
Ah, good point -- cash deposits and big paper checks (>$10k, IIRC) are a good reason to maintain a big B&M bank account. Didn't think about that since I never do either.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by shostack on Sunday October 16, 2016 @03:12PM (#12720378)
Except Chase now wants to charge me $12/Mo for a freaking checking account. Their nickel and diming of fees has gotten beyond ridiculous.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by brianwawok on Sunday October 16, 2016 @08:17PM (#12721879)
Yah. I keep $1500 in my checking to keep my "free" account. So kind of the trade. They get $1500 of my money that they give me no interest. I get to abuse them for cash deposits and large paper checks.

We have a mutually abusive relationship.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by kibibyte on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:00PM (#12716457)
As far as I know, the only bank to offer a higher interest rate (for the entire balance--as opposed to the first X amount) is GS Bank at 1.05%. But I haven't seen anything higher.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by sakopov on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:16PM (#12716515)
Barclays is at 1% or 1.05% as well I believe.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by lsiebert on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:09PM (#12716486)
Synchrony does the same.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by planteen on Sunday October 16, 2016 @11:06AM (#12718906)
B&M banks are nice for safe deposit boxes too. My backup strategy for my home PCs is rotating hard drives through a safe deposit box.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by ghshephard on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:06PM (#12716474)
I can answer that for myself - no way in hell would I trust any substantial amount of money to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ally_Bank. I'm somewhat more comfortable with trusting this entity - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_Fargo

If you have your paycheck auto-depositied, you can avoid most/all of the fees.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by throwaway287391 on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:10PM (#12716492)
Er, could you explain why? The Wikipedia articles you link to seem to very much make the case in the opposite direction... There doesn't seem to be anything damning in the Ally entry. Especially compared with the Wells Fargo entry, which includes a detailed 14 point list of "Controversies" (including the recent scandal and CEO resignation which should be fresh on everyone's minds).
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by ghshephard on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:28PM (#12716546)
Size of the entity was what I was trying to capture. You know that an entity like WellsFargo is not going to go out of business overnight, I don't have the same level of confidence with a 600 employee online-operation.

Also, without researching, I'm just guessing that a bricks and mortar FDIC regulated bank is reasonably safe (in the United States). I would have to sit down and do somewhat more research to be certain of an entity like Ally.

Note, these are all personal observations - the original post was indicating they were surprised that people put their money in Wells Fargo/Bank of America, etc... instead of Ally. I was just trying to supply one (personal) reason why we do it. It's entirely possible that my biases/conservative nature make those reasons ridiculous, but they are still honest.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by throwaway287391 on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:33PM (#12716567)
Okay, fair enough.

Just for the record though, Ally is FDIC insured/regulated (and I'd guess that's true of most online banks that people actually use). I know you didn't explicitly say otherwise, but I wanted to make a note of that for anyone else who might be worried about that specifically.

For someone like you, I'd reiterate my recommendation for Schwab. But if you never pay fees as is (even from ATMs) then I could see how it may not be worth the time to switch.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by kobeya on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:43PM (#12716606)
Ally is a rebranding of GM Bank -- as in General Motors. It has existed in some form since 1919. It's not some fly-by-night operation.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by dpark on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:41PM (#12716599)
Ally Financial is the parent company and has 7000 employees. It's got 5 billion in revenue.

Yes, Wells Fargo is a bigger company but Ally is no small potato.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by dpark on Saturday October 15, 2016 @10:13PM (#12716499)
> I can answer that for myself - no way in hell would I trust any substantial amount of money to Ally Bank.

That might be an answer to you but it's not an answer to anyone asking. What's so terrible about Ally?

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by freyr on Sunday October 16, 2016 @12:28AM (#12716914)
What bank gives you a 30 day CD at 0.75%? My bank (Bank of America) gives 0.03%.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by grogers on Sunday October 16, 2016 @12:44AM (#12716989)
Seems fishy to me as well. Best I could find with a few minutes of googling was a 0.22% 30 day CD, but with a minimum of $95,000 [1]. Others I could find with low deposit limits are in the 0.10% area. Most banks don't even offer 30 day CDs it looks like.

1. https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/bank_cd_rates

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by ghshephard on Sunday October 16, 2016 @01:01PM (#12719583)
Just double checked, and OCBC (Singapore) is currently offering 1% for 12 month deposit, no 30 day preferable rates.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by sethammons on Saturday October 15, 2016 @09:31PM (#12716394)
In the article:

> ...asked 7,000 people around the country how much money they had set aside in savings accounts for the future...

I think that would include CDs and other savings vehicles. It is unclear if that counts retirement accounts.

Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by arbuge on Saturday October 15, 2016 @09:32PM (#12716396)
Nevertheless it seems like a flaw in the study if it's not counting other liquid sources of cash, such as checking accounts, brokerage accounts, cash itself, etc.
Re:Survey: 69% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings by dawnerd on Saturday October 15, 2016 @09:43PM (#12716412)
That reminds me, I need to move my cash out of savings. I'm insane for keeping that much in there without earning anything meaningful.